Use Local Media to Your Advantage | Dr. David Geier, MD, Orthopedic Surgeon and Media Expert

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] David for those who haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and let our listeners know what we're talking about today. 

David Geier, MD: I'm Dr. David Geier. I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I specialize in sports medicine, uh, taking care of athletes and active people. And for purposes of this discussion, I am, uh, a medical expert in the media in all forms of media.

So today, uh, you and I are gonna talk about ways that people, you know, pharmacists in particular, but it can be physicians or really anybody can do TV, radio, podcasts, newspaper magazine, interviews to grow their practices and businesses. I would think 

Mike Koelzer, Host: that we, as pharmacists are gonna be a hard group to want to get in front of the camera.

And I wonder if we're harder than physicians are, or if physicians are harder than pharmacists. , 

David Geier, MD: That's interesting. I have both groups. Uh, large percentages of members or of practitioners that would be difficult. Physicians reach out to me all the time saying, Hey, I would love to do this, but I'm afraid of, you know, being misquoted, something, being taken outta context in what you do, what I do, you know, all pharmacists and physicians, we're educating people about highly sensitive areas.

And we wanna make sure that everything we say is very, very accurate. So that's a legitimate concern. You know, my guess is it's probably about the same between both. I think there's some legitimate apprehension for potentially doing the media when you're not sure how that interview's gonna go.

And I don't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: blame people. I mean, when we both went into this together longer than you ago, no one ever said we'd be in front of a camera or on the recording. It's a foreign world for this profession versus others. If you got into something maybe like real estate, or you might figure you might be more.

Marketing in front of the camera and so on. So I guess I don't blame 

David Geier, MD: people. That's a good way to look at it. A lot of what pharmacists are doing and, and we're doing in their training and, and physicians, it's very technical. I mean, we know the ins and outs of really minute, uh, complex details. And yeah, we have patient interactions where we're trying to explain things and easy to understand language, but our goal isn't really to spread that information outside of that one-on-one relationship.

And, and that's where it probably is different to a lot of other fields that, you know, politics and, and things where it's, it's very natural. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: How about social media in general? Do you see a reason why our average medical person is maybe not on as much as someone 

David Geier, MD: else? The easy answer is time. I mean, that just, I know that's true with not just physicians and pharmacists, but really anybody in healthcare, whether it's nurses or mid-level like nurse practitioners and PAs.

Yeah. Um, And, you know, the argument is whether it's media or social media, you know, why would I want to do something that gives me more patience when I'm already doing more than I can do. I'm seeing more patience in less time than ever before. Why would I necessarily wanna do more of that? So I, I get the concern.

I've got counters to that argument. And, and especially in this era of, uh, hospitals employed physicians and, and everybody's right, the age of private practices, there still are private practices, uh, physicians, for sure. And, and even pharmacies being under, you know, largely lots of them corporate run. I think that too, there's less incentive to sort of go out and build it on your own.

Mike Koelzer, Host: In general, with pharmacy, I've always said, why would a chain pharmacist or anybody who's employed, except maybe you're real close to the owner. Who's kind of cracking the whip there every day. Why would somebody wanna. Really be extra nice to someone because it takes more time and they're just gonna come back more often and they're gonna be more busy and it's kind of like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

Maybe the, uh, incentive structure is wrong or something. Yeah. You hit a point there. I mean, physicians are the same way unless you're maybe self-employed. So this is where you step in David counter argue that why should an employed person who's just gonna get. Busier than Al, why do they wanna do social media?

Well, the 

David Geier, MD: The great thing about the media and social media is that you can really target a specific niche. So yeah, your goal could just be, I'm gonna grow my practice overall, but if there's something you really like to do, and this applies to pharmacists or physicians. In my case, when I started the media, I was trying to grow my practice specifically.

I said, I do sports medicine. And part of that is young. Middle school, high school, college athletes. So all my media interviews for the most part were targeted toward that. I was talking about information for parents to prevent injuries and coaches to prevent injuries and, and statistics on youth sports injuries.

And so I very quickly became the, you know, youth sports medicine guy in Charleston, South Carolina. I don't focus it that much anymore, but whether it, it is pharmacy [00:05:00] or any type of, uh, physician, if there's something you really like to do or a part of your practice that you really want to grow, that's what you would try to do more and more interviews on.

Yeah. You'll still get, you know, everything around the fringes because it's the nature of healthcare. Yeah. But if you become known for one, yeah. You're the go-to for this type of patient, uh, that goes a long way and the media can absolutely do that for you. I'm still gonna 

Mike Koelzer, Host: come in as a devil's advocate and say, well, David, so what you're still gonna get busier around the fringes.

Would you say that someone who is. Not self-employed. Does it still behoove them to specialize because of why job security or do they get more remuneration for that? Or why would they even want to 

David Geier, MD: niche down? I'm sure the financial reimbursement is probably a factor for a lot of people. In my case, that was just, I felt like that's what I really enjoyed.

And that's what I was really good at. And, and I know physicians that like one particular thing, you know, whether it's neurologists that like peripheral nerve injuries and not yeah. You know, things with the brain and there's all sorts of things where you just want to be known, not so much known, but you want people with complex problems in that little niche to come to you because that's what you really like.

So it may be a job satisfaction thing. No, there absolutely could be a financial side to it too. Yeah. Uh, but I, I, I, I wouldn't say that's the only reason you would do it. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Job satisfaction. That makes a lot of sense, because if you're gonna be working hard, you might as well enjoy 

David Geier, MD: doing it. Yeah. Be doing 

Mike Koelzer, Host: what you love.

Right for you. Was that a combination of getting into the media and so on in order to do more of what you enjoy in the medical field? And then I know that's even branched out to being an advocate for social and median. PR 

David Geier, MD: yourself. You're absolutely right. I love doing this almost as a side, uh, side gig almost.

I really love spreading my message, but when I started doing this, I was at an academic medical center. I was the director of a sports medicine program at an academic hospital. And I basically started it from scratch. There was no sports medicine before I got there. We didn't have pro teams. We didn't really have high schools.

And I was building every part of the program. But part of that is we didn't have lots of athletes and athletic people as patients. And so I'm trying to grow the program and my practice and both marketing and public relations had talked to me cuz they. Felt like I was good at explaining information in ways people could understand.

And so they got me started around 2009, 2010, doing interviews for them to try to grow sports medicine. The problem with that is, is I was doing a lot of this, especially when they had me start a website and blogging and doing, uh, writing a regular newspaper column, uh, for the Charleston paper here that on top of a full practice, that's where I got into burnout in a hurry.

Then I really had to start prioritizing, get rid of the things that just weren't important in my work, things that weren't important to me personally, because I really did love blogging and I loved leading. Twitter chats, uh, back in the day, when that was a big deal. And I responded to questions online, I started a podcast, uh, related to sports medicine.

I really loved all of that and really, uh, found the value in it and spreading a message to a much larger audience, but there was a huge time commitment. So it forced me to sort of look inward and sort of cut things that really were dragging me down so I could spend more time, uh, or at least some time every week doing social media and then transition into traditional media.

Mike Koelzer, Host: How did the hospital know that you had that knack? Was it they had already seen some of your personal stuff or was it just communicating with you through. Office setting and so on. It 

David Geier, MD: It was probably luck on my part. Uh, with marketing, they had had me write, uh, an article or two for them, their university had a, uh, blog at that time.

And, those generated a lot of comments, which was sort of their metric to know that it was getting engagement, public relations, at least in academics. There's a public relation department that will get all these requests from the local TV stations and newspapers. And then they'll, you know, see what the topic is, reach out to that department and say, Hey, does, can anybody talk about, you know, whatever the topic is?

Yeah. And I would always be the one that would volunteer, like nobody else in my department would ever even do it. And then when I did it, not only was I enthusiastic about it, but they realized that, Hey, I can explain this in English. I'm not using, you know, eight syllable words. And, and I, that they just sort of, it was mutually beneficial.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Give your druthers out of your weak. What percent would you say your. Doing social stuff, marketing stuff, versus the bigger crowd versus one on one with your patients and you personally, if money wasn't a factor, what percent would you [00:10:00] like to be doing of each? 

David Geier, MD: The first one? Uh, let me do it, cuz that is pretty easy.

The other one's sort of fantasy, but I, I have an idea what I would, where I'd go with it with what I'm doing now. And I'm gonna sort of blend social media and traditional media together because I multipurpose everything. I create content wise. So all I'm the medical expert for two TV stations here in Charleston for the ABC station and the Fox station.

And I'm on TV. Every day, I do a recorded interview back when it was, before COVID I would actually go to the studio once a week and do an interview with one of the hosts. Wow. But then now, and they still haven't opened up the studio, uh, to outsiders. Even their reporters have to be remote. They can't actually go in the studio.

So it's just the producers' cameramen. And you're the gas you are the host. I, I, neither actually. It's, it's, it's a 32nd to 62nd clip where I talk about something. You see, it's more like I'm the reporter. Yeah. Yeah. So the host, I'll create, I'll find a new research study or whatever the topic is and record 30.

It's usually 30 to 40 seconds. Wow. And then I send it to the news director and, uh, the head producer of the, the night, uh, the five to seven o'clock shows. Right. So then they, if they like it, which almost every night they do, they, they, you know, create a little script for their host, um, a news study in the American or whatever talks about how 60% of people die after heart attacks.

I'm just making something up. Uh, our ABC news four medical expert, Dr. David Geier explains, and then they play the video. And then, you know, with the, I mean, it ends up airing about four different times between the, the morning shows the next day. And so I do that every day, but I don't do that. Like every day I turn on this TV studio and do it, I record.

Yeah. Like Saturday I recorded all of this week. So that's five videos. It took me about three and a half to four hours of doing the research online, sort of wow. Brainstorming it and then recording it. And then the editing I put in, I don't have to edit very much and send it off. I do all of that at. Wow.

Um, but sometimes I'll do two weeks at a time or three weeks at a time. If I'm gonna be traveling, that's like mental 

Mike Koelzer, Host: anguish coming up with that much material. Yeah. 

David Geier, MD: But I also enjoy it, but then you were talking about social media. So I then also use those on, uh, Facebook and Twitter. And I put 'em on my website.

They're on a YouTube channel. And the key is I. Assistant that does a lot of that posting it to different places, posting it to my website, all social media, uh, helping with schedule tweets and Facebook posts about it. I don't do that. Kind of, we've got a system and, and, uh, you know, projects and, you know, steps.

We've done this so long, so I don't have to do 

Mike Koelzer, Host: that. That's the easy part though, coming up with those stories and stuff that can be easy. 

David Geier, MD: Sometimes it's easier than others early in COVID it was super easy because there were 8 million things to talk about as I transitioned back out of COVID. Uh, yeah.

Then you have to, and I've got. Tricks for what I search for, uh, Google to get stuff. And I keep, and this is kind of some people that wanna do media. Uh, one little trick is to sort of keep a, and there's different ways to do this, but keep a content folder, whether I use Evernote or it can be Dropbox, it can be a physical folder.

Doesn't really matter that anytime you see something interesting, a research study or, or, you know, a celebrity story that you could potentially transition to a pharmacy topic, keep that somewhere so that when you need ideas, you've just got this, uh, this just huge collection. And I do that. So it is initially, you know, that takes time to build up, but now, you know, I, I can get ideas pretty quickly.

And then the flip side of it is a lot of times, once you start doing these, then they reach out to you. The media does and suggests the topic themselves. I 

Mike Koelzer, Host: imagine once you start looking, it's kind of like when you hear a new word or you. See a car you're kind of interested in, then all of a sudden, you notice, you hear the word a million times the next week, or you exactly.

You see the car. So once you train yourself, probably to look for those, it probably gets a bit easier. Now I'm imagining that your work with the news stations, no money takes place, right? 

David Geier, MD: Correct. Yeah. They don't, they don't pay. And I don't pay to get on. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Correct. They don't pay you, you don't pay them. I've always done that with the radio, but then sometimes the radio will start saying, uh, you know, when they have to sell advertisements and they start hitting up the businesses, they know the closest.

So they say, do you want to advertise? Like, no, not really. I mean, I'm getting my little pharmacies, like a two mile radius, so I can't dump a ton of money into that. And then I kind of feel guilty going back there. But I think about like these morning radio shows, they've gotta fill up. I mean, they have an interview, like, let's say the program's five hours long.

They have an interview every hour, 25 hours a week, they have to fill up. So you're doing them a favor, bringing that information 

David Geier, MD: to them. Absolutely. And, and you're not just yeah, filling time, but hopefully you're talking about something that the listeners or the viewers resonate with. And then yeah.

You know, [00:15:00] so that it brings them, you know, it improves their ratings, ABC and Fox, the TV stations here wouldn't have me on, except I boost their ratings and I, this. I just say this cuz it's what the news director tells me. The they're women 25 to 49, which is a key advertising. Demographics have only gone up since I started doing this.

And so maybe that probably has nothing to do with me, but I'll take it. Cuz that keeps me on TV. I've been 

Mike Koelzer, Host: told I have a phase for radio for our listeners. One of us is younger. Has maybe more screen appeal than darker hair. The other one doesn't so much, but yeah, that's gotta help. 

David Geier, MD: Right? Probably I, I don't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: now.

Not that you're not skilled with everything else, but come on. Right. 

David Geier, MD: The nice thing about medicine and I, I completely get, cuz I had one I have over the last few years, I've had several media coaches, but I've had one that I've worked with since 2015 and I'm always talking like, I've really gotta really make this media thing work because I'm getting older and you know, TV news, especially it's all young people he's and he says, that's only true for women, you know?

And to be fair, that's acting more than TV. And he says for physicians on TV, Being older and looking more professional is actually a good thing. So I don't know that that necessarily is true. I get the idea that everybody's beautiful, but you don't have to be them, how you explain things is much more important than what you look like.

And this a little bit gets to what percentage of my time would I like to do in the media at some point? It probably I'm probably not that far away would like to be, instead of just being the medical expert for ABC news four and Fox 24 here in Charleston would like to do it at the Fox news, CNN, that type of level.

And I've got media coaches I'm working with that are confident that that will happen before too long. But I want to get there before. I'm like, uh, you know, in my mind, age is a big deal. Everybody tells me that's not true. So I get, I have the same concerns you do, but people tell me in medicine, that's not as big a deal 

Mike Koelzer, Host: with the better sex out there.

The women, it is. That's a harder thing for them because men let's face it. It's just D. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah, just look at the TV news, the cable news networks, and there are plenty of examples of older men that are the big hosts, but the women typically are young and attractive. And I'm not saying I agree that just for whatever reason and Fox news seems to start that, but they all do it now.

They, they, you know, CNN is the same way in my, my coaches Roger's defense. He is probably right. When you look at the guests, they interview, it doesn't seem to be as applicable. How you explain what you're talking about, your message, uh, talking points. If you can do that. Well, I feel like you, you can overcome being, you know, 50, 55, something like that.

Well, and I think 

Mike Koelzer, Host: a lot of it has to do with the topic you're on. If you were talking about maybe the new tech or something like that, I know that. Would know it as well, but in that case, maybe the 25 year old or 30 year olds take precedence over the people that look a little bit more mature, but with something like medicine, I think if you look healthy, but you're old and healthy, I think if it's the narrative, 

David Geier, MD: even not just how you look, but there's a lot to it.

It's, you know, if you're doing a remote interview, it's having maybe the white lab code and, and diplomas behind you or yeah. Uh, you know, there's a lot of aspects. It's being credible, especially in this COVID world where there. You know, not just in medicine, but everywhere, but on online social media, traditional media, a lot of misinformation out there, the physicians, the pharmacists, and really anybody in healthcare, the more credible we come across, uh, the more likely the media is gonna say, yeah, that's the person, uh, that's the man, that's the woman we want as a, are the spokesman for whatever I understand where 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you're coming from.

Because I mean, that's part of the reason too, why I'm on the podcast because I haven't monetized this, but potentially I have more longevity. If I do monetize it some day, I have more longevity when people can't see me versus versus when they can see me. And if I was gonna be seen, I'd probably wanna make my mark.

Well, I think it's too late. I think it's too late for me, but if I was gonna be seen, I'd wanna make my mark now versus yeah, 15 years from now. And 

David Geier, MD: podcasts are a great medium for healthcare professionals. I mean, I, I, I hear a lot of times, like, why would I wanna be on a podcast? The podcast is heard by people across the country and I'm in Charleston or I'm in Dallas or, and so I'm not, you know, I'm gonna be talking to a lot of people that aren't gonna come see me as a patient, but that, but there's so much credibility that comes with podcasts and podcasts have becomes so niche now that you can really share your expertise.

And then you share [00:20:00] that link to your interview on this podcast or any other podcast, put it on your social media and like, wow. They interviewed, you know, my doctor or my pharmacist on this. He must be great. I, I, podcasts are fantastic. I, they don't get enough credit for, uh, how much they can really help your business goals.

I, I, I think people kind of see it as entertainment, but it's, it's really way more than that. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, They're not gonna listen to this for an hour. It's like that doesn't matter. It's like saying you're an author. And having someone say, they're not gonna read the book. That doesn't matter. You're an author.

You got the book cover. I mean, you don't wanna just always have fluff in your life, but , it does help 

David Geier, MD: with that. Yeah. And I can tell you, I have bought so many books. I've, you know, I started Bulletproof coffee after hearing a podcast interview of Dave Astrid. For sure. I can't tell you how many things that I do, because it's not just your learning information, which you do, but podcasting is so personal.

You have your headphones on at the gym or you're listening as one person in your car. It's almost like they're talking to you. And, and there's something it's that's even the radio, which in theory is, would be the same thing. Never feels one on one, like a podcast does, when will the 

Mike Koelzer, Host: local stuff starts getting in the way of.

National stuff. And here's what I mean, is there ever a point where you'd be better off doing something national, even though it may not have the exposure versus saying, well, this is David from w you know, KX Z news and Charleston. Does that ever hurt you to be local and not being on a national stage Al.

A small 

David Geier, MD: one. It really depends on what you're trying to achieve if I do. And I, I haven't really, I've done just a couple big TV things, but I haven't done that many, but I've done New York times U uh, USA today, wall street journal, those types of things. My goal at sort of a national level is different.

That's more about spreading a message to a bigger audience. And then some other things that I've got planned for down the road that I'd like to start doing locally, it is much more about building my practice and, and I'm not even if I somehow do get to CNN, Fox news, one of those or my own show, I'll still do local.

Uh, you know, I might do it differently, maybe a little bit less time. I'll, I'll have to figure that out. Uh, but I, I will still do it because I, I don't imagine that I would ever stop practicing. And for most people that are gonna do media, whether it's pharmacists or physicians, local is all they really need.

I mean, the national stuff is good, but I don't think you're gonna build much of your practice there. I mean, you may get an occasional person that flies from somewhere to see you, but your audience, your patients are coming from locally. And so I, I. For most people, that's gonna be more 

Mike Koelzer, Host: important. I agree because I do this now.

It's been fun for me because my whole life has been, like I said, with a radio advertising, it's been a two mile radius. And now finally, I'm doing something that I can use some marketing skills on a bigger canvas, let's say, but locally I've merged them by like, I'll put this on a grand rapids, you know, healthcare, LinkedIn group that I have or something I'll put this on there.

Kinda like we talked about that. I don't know if the audience will be there, but it'll say, oh, well he talked to a doctor about this. Maybe there's something in there, but it's certainly a different audience. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. It, it, it, again, it is just what your different goals are and local, the other way, I would look at it because, and this gets back to when we were talking about time.

Yeah. The great thing about doing local interviews is that your. It's a lot easier. I mean, it's possible at the national level, but local radio, local TV, obviously the newspapers, you can get the links to it. You can actually get the video to it and then put it on your social media, put it on your website. That's possible at the national level, but there's some tricks because you certainly can't just annoy the producers.

CNN or Fox news or Fox five in New York and say, Hey, can you send me the video of that? They're not gonna send it to you. So then you have to go to other steps to get it, but locally, as you're building those relationships, you know, and you know, not only will they help you and you put all that information out there, but locals also much more likely to be, you develop a lasting relationship.

So many people have come back to me over and over and over to interview me. And that works better locally, I think, than nationally. Yeah, that's true 

Mike Koelzer, Host: because the odds of a national person wanting to come back, unless you're the personality, the odds of them coming back for, uh, bigger story are probably just few and far between because the odds of you hitting two big stories, well, within even a couple years is probably not gonna be.

That's great. 

David Geier, MD: The only exception I might make where I've developed national [00:25:00] relation or relationships at a national level are, um, websites for online publications, the magazines that now have websites where they're creating content all the time. So I'll find, uh, y'all, you know, I have an RSS feed set up on topics that I'm interested in and that I talk about in the media.

And I see somebody write an article that I really like. I'll reach out to that writer and say, Hey, I really liked your article on this, you know, deal. So, and so, and then, you know, anytime you have an, uh, a topic related to, you know, Injuries or yeah. Medical topics for active people, athletes. And then they'll reach out to me once that interview goes well.

And then it turns into, I've done 6, 7, 8 interviews over the course of a year with a lot of different writers. And, and so it does work at that level, but you're right at TV rate, national radio, that kind of thing. It probably won't unless you have a publicist, which is a whole other sort of, uh, discussion, but yeah, but I think it can be done, but locally, absolutely.

Those local, uh, newspaper reporters, local radio show hosts, and producers, the TV, the local TV station producers. They absolutely, if you have, uh, have a good. interview and you're a likable, easy to work with person. They absolutely will come back to you over and over again. Well, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And that's huge, David, you mentioned that because we had talked at first about an interesting topic and helping out the public and that kind of stuff.

But boy, if you can answer your text quickly to them and they know that. They're gonna show up and you're gonna have some good sound bites for them. I'm sure they don't wanna show up and spend a couple hours on someone and then say we can't use 

David Geier, MD: this. Yeah, absolutely. And they don't wanna have to cater too much to you now, obviously as pharmacists and physicians we're experts and they'll give us a little bit of latitude mm-hmm , but I'll, I'll never forget.

When I was at that academic medical center, one of the guys in the orthopedic surgery department, one of my partners, was a foot and ankle surgeon and he used to complain about all the media I would get. So public relations actually got him an interview about foot and ankle injuries for the big 10 K road race here in Charleston.

It's one of the biggest in the country. And so they got him this TV interview, you know, about how to prevent, you know, foot injuries, training for the Cooper river bridge run. And he said, yeah, I'd love to do it. How about next Thursday? Yeah. You know, and, and, uh, she called me the head of public relations.

They're like, no, no, no, they need to do it today. And so I was like, I'll be there. I can be there in an hour. Like, it was just. Come on bill, like it's you gotta at least work with people. Uh, you know, they'll, they'll work, especially in this COVID world. It's really easy. You can do remote interviews by mostly everybody using zoom.

For sure. So you can do 'em almost any time now where in the past, yeah. You would have to drive to the station or maybe they'd come out to you, but now it's all zoom now and it can be done really well. So you have to work with them a little bit, but, but it's not, it really isn't that bad if you can't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: do.

Well, first of all, you can thank them for contacting you. Hey, call me next time. And then secondly, there's a lot of things you can do. It's like, look, I'm in a meeting for an hour, but I could answer a couple questions through text by 

David Geier, MD: email. Absolutely. There's a lot 

Mike Koelzer, Host: of extras you can give to them, even though maybe you can't make it down to the station or something like that.

David Geier, MD: And the other thing that happens a lot of times is they may reach out to you. And it's an, a topic that, eh, that's a little, I, I know it, but I'm not really comfortable with it. They are so appreciative. If you say, Hey, This isn't really my area of expertise, but so, and so would be great for this here's this phone number or here's her email address.

Yeah, they will respect that so much more that you didn't just try to wing it and that you helped them by giving them another person. They will definitely come back to you when it is something in your lane. So that's something else. Just be helpful. One of my media coaches, she used to be the PR uh, the producer for Anderson Cooper and for Oprah.

Uh, and she would always say, always think about how you can be the solution for that producer or for that reporter. Yes. And, and it doesn't mean that you have to necessarily do the interview, but find some way to help. Obviously you wanna try to do the interview if you can, but even if you can't, there's ways you can help.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I would do that with pharmacy. Like if they called and said, or texted and I wasn't available for some reason, I'm like, yeah. But if you have a question on even the pronunciation or something like that yeah. You're being that solution for them. I would tell our radio guys though, I have a fun relationship with the radio guy and I'm sure a lot of people do because of radio guys.

Kind of friendly morning guys, you know, they're awesome. They're 

David Geier, MD: funny. But 

Mike Koelzer, Host: he said, you know anything about this and said, no, I don't. I don't really, but by tomorrow at 6:00 AM, I'll be an expert. 

David Geier, MD: exactly. I mean, very rarely. It would have to be something really breaking news that they need to talk right now.

Usually you have a few hours. The only one is sometimes newspapers and TV. Sometimes they have a deadline by the end of the day, but everything else you, like you say you have till the next morning, you can look it up. You can call colleagues that are experts in that area and get enough [00:30:00] information to ask the questions.

It's rare that they're gonna put you on the spot right then and there. So I, I feel like you're not gonna have to defer all that often. It's just more, if it's really something you don't feel comfortable talking about, you probably might wanna, you should avoid that, but give them somebody that might be better.

Mike Koelzer, Host: The local people, it seems, yes. They're looking for an expert, but more so they want an expert that lives. In the city. Yeah. Or there's a reason because they want that local story. If they just wanted an expert, they could call up, you know, someone across the country. And so the important thing is there is like, don't worry too much about it because they're not gonna try to nail you on something you're 

David Geier, MD: there to help them.

I couldn't agree more well with the interview, talking about how sometimes people are worried that they're gonna be taken out of context or misquoted. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That is really rare. Gotcha. Journalism. They're not trying to do that with physicians. They really aren't. They're not trying to do it.

Pharmacists, uh, they just wanna get information that helps people. They want to get information that readers, listeners, viewers be like, Ooh, that's interesting that I actually have that problem. And then their ears perk up and or they, they take the clip online and send it to people, you know, they, that's what they care about.

So yeah, the relationships are key and they're not trying to trick you or, or, or make you say something that's not true 

Mike Koelzer, Host: once a month. I guess I was on this, uh, the local show and I'd be the pharmacist that would show up, you know, and one month it was on what had happened with the Supreme court, because there was a big decision a year ago where the, it was an ado decision in favor of independent pharmacists over pharmacy benefit managers.

And. This was one of the first times where with her, because it was during COVID that it wasn't live. She said, Mike, it's not live, but we're gonna pretend like it's live. We're not gonna cut or anything. We'll just do it. And then we'll air it as it's live. I said, all right, so we're talking and I said something about the Supreme court and pharmacy benefit managers.

And she said, no, we're gonna start over. I'm like, pretty much keep it until prices go down and you'll get to choose your own insurance or something like that. They're not trying to catch it. The news is dumbed down for everybody. You think when you listen to the news that it's not dumbed down, but it is.

And when you're talking to your profession way below where your 

David Geier, MD: profession, I think it's sixth grade reading level. Yeah. You wanna give information that people can understand. Anybody can understand, not just people in your profession, but not just that they can understand what they can actually use. So you have to be able to translate it.

Not just in English, but in steps. Like, all right. What are the three things that I'm gonna remember to do after this? And, and I, I feel like the, whether it's radio, TV, uh, magazines, newspapers, if you can do that, they love you because one of the secrets of local media that people don't understand is they're struggling for ideas, for articles, for show segments.

And so a lot of times you might, especially if you've done a couple. With them. But even if you haven't, you can see who talks about health on TV or on the different radio. And just reach out to 'em and say, Hey, I got this great topic, uh, about, you know, either it's a new study or one of the things I, I like to do, uh, this sounds crazy, but I swear it works is just skim through people magazine online or get that in your RSS feed, apple news or whatever.

And when a celebrity has an issue related to any medications, you know, they took too much or had a bad side effect cuz the celebrity news, I mean just trust me, go through people magazine, go back for a week. You'll find some pharmacy related topic that some celebrity had. And then you, you copy the link for that, send it to the reporter or the producer, whatever, say, Hey, you know, Gwyneth Paltro is promoting this drug for whatever.

Um, but UN you know, as we've seen, or, and then, you know, I I'm making this up as I go, but, uh, and then she had all these side, the side effects from taking it, and then you would say, Hey, I can come on and, you know, talk about what that drug is and explain who gets these side effects and how you can prevent it, that I'm just making that up.

But something like that, you. You wouldn't believe how often they'll do that because they used it, whether it's Gwyneth Paltro. I did one, uh, on Arod and JLo about them doing fasted cardio before their, their, uh, wedding. And it's just a one sec, uh, one sentence intro that the host uses say JLo and Arod.

And then you talk about whatever that topic is. Believe me, you will get interviews. If you just look for things in your niche that celebrities sort of have had issues with. If the celebrities have everybody, all of us have those same issues. And so that's just a little thing that I've kind of learned that works really well.

If you're trying to get interviews. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: When you were saying that I was gonna say, well, David, yeah, that gets you the foot in the door [00:35:00] for the newscaster, because it piques their interest, but they don't use that for their story. But you're telling me that they actually will start off their local news and say, well, JLo has a problem with this.

And you might too. They actually use 

David Geier, MD: That's like that. Yeah. The, the, uh, those work really better for interviews than se, but even in story segments, you're giving them an idea for a topic. Yeah. You know, and they can introduce it. And maybe, you know, they've got all these news services that they can get quotes from, you know, from celebrities, especially if they reach people's magazines, there's probably a video of it somewhere.

Right. And then they would splice in a sentence or two of you, maybe in one or two places talking about whatever that problem is. You're not talking about celebrities. You're just talking about, you know, whatever that drug side effect was or overdosing on this medication or whatever it is. But they might use a celebrity 

Mike Koelzer, Host: as the intro for that.

David Geier, MD: Exactly. And it happens all the time. Uh, and it really should be, you know, I, I really think that that's a good angle if you're trying to get interviews, TV and radio, especially, but, uh, yeah, it just, um, it, it happens more than you 

Mike Koelzer, Host: think it seems cheap, but that's news these days, I suppose, but it's 

David Geier, MD: a medical topic.

You're not really talking about the celebrities. All the celebrity does is segue into what is in the case of that one. I did JLo and Arod and fasted cardio. It was basically what is fast cardio? Is this something that all of us can do to lose weight? Is this, is it safe? How would I get started in it?

That's what the interview was. That little thing of JLo was literally the first sentence only. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And I don't mean that it's cheap for us that are trying to get publicity, cuz we'll do anything. I'm just joking there. But I'm saying that the news, it just doesn't seem like they would, but I guess they do right.

If they can get the interest of the listener. Don't use it. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. The challenge that, that local TV, local radio, to a different extent, it's a different animal with radio. But the problem that that TV has is that while you're watching TV, and this is why advertising. Especially on local TV generally, I would argue.

Not a good idea is when we're just thinking of when last time you watched the local news, you're probably texting or flipping through social media, or you're helping your kids with your homework or you're cooking dinner. You're not really paying attention. And so these news producers are trying to figure out what captures your attention and makes you look at the screen.

And so, you know, if you hear Gwyneth Paltro or Brad Pitt or something like that, it does, it is just the nature of it. And that can, that's why I say that can be good for you. If you can find something in your field, your niche that a celebrity can do that allows you to then introduce that topic to everybody else.

I'm always 

Mike Koelzer, Host: thinking. Teaser and things, but it's not even a teaser. It's like a way actually for you to look up from your screen, because you hear a name that you're used to looking at a screen and seeing JLo or someone. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, I mean, it doesn't have to be a celebrity. It can be a really shocking statistic.

It could be. I mean, there's lots of ways to kind of grab attention, but that helps the most, yes, you want to help people. Yes. You want to make a difference in their lives. But if you can do that in a way that helps as many people as possible as large, you know, an audience that interests them, they actually have to watch it to actually take action.

And so, yes, unfortunately it still is to a certain extent entertainment. And so you, it has to be something reasonably interesting, but we all work in fields that there's some things that we talk about on a daily basis with patients that are interesting. You 

Mike Koelzer, Host: gotta be fine tuned to that, of looking for those.

And I'm sure they pop up all the time. Yeah. 

David Geier, MD: I mean, literally my, and, and I'm just, I'm an apple guy, but I, I don't say this for them. There's tons of RSS, feeders, I just, or RSS feeds. I just use, uh, apple news and, and people magazine. I just selected that as a like, or category or whatever. And I mean, they must put out 50 articles a day.

It's crazy how much there is. At least once a day, there will be something medical in it's always, well, it's not always 90% of people. Magazines are celebrities and at least one of those 40 or 50 articles a day will be something medical. It may not be something that I'm really good at talking about, but it'll be something medical.

Uh, and so, I mean, just thinking and, and, you know, it would all depend on, uh, you, but I remember, I think I'm gonna get this wrong. I'm not super up into celebrity gossip, but I think it was Demi Lavato recently who had a story where she talked about a drug overdose or something. I don't remember the details.

Yeah, that's perfect. You know, to talk about, I don't even remember what drug it was now, but, uh, or what medication, but, uh, to talk about the dangers of that particular medication, uh, on the local news or local radio, absolutely. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: David tells our listeners how easy it is. In [00:40:00] different ways to get in touch with the local news.

It ain't rocket science and those people are eager to hear from you. 

David Geier, MD: Absolutely. It's certainly much easier at the local level than at the national level. I mean, just with newspaper reporters, I know this is true here and I, I think most local news, uh, newspapers, the email address of the reporter will be at the end of the article.

So that's easy on the local news. Usually their Twitter handle is there and local the news. A lot of times on the websites for the show hosts and all the, the information will be there and it to be fair, it doesn't take much research, either go into the station's website or, um, you know, the newspaper 

Mike Koelzer, Host: LinkedIn, you can find out who all works there.

David Geier, MD: Yeah. Linked. Twitter. I mean, you'd be surprised because of the reason I said so many reporters are trying to find interesting stories. Yeah. It'll be in their Twitter bio or it'll be, yeah, like you say, LinkedIn, there's tons of ways. And honestly you can figure out and I, this sounds sleazy, but it's really not.

You just, you know, you can figure out the email addresses. Yeah. You know, based on the, you know, the wmc.com and then you see what other people's email, it's like first initial, last name at whatever. And you know, that's gonna be how the whole station is. And so, um, and, and they, they generally. If you reach out to a reporter or a producer, and again, your mindset has to be, I'm going to help if you go and exactly send this email that says, Hey, I'm, I've won all these awards.

You should interview me. They're gonna be angry and delete it. But if you say, Hey, uh, I loved your, your story on whatever I thought that was great. And something that we, you know, I didn't know much about whatever your, your, you thought, you know, I also, um, you know, you suggest a topic that's similar. So you, they, you showed them that you, that you know what they do, that you're not pitching a business reporter about a medical topic, that kind of thing, and, and offer them, Hey, you know, I saw this story and maybe you send a link to the, to the story we could talk.

X Y and Z, you know, three key points and just a little three short paragraph pitch. You'd be amazed at the local level, easily. 50% of the time you'll hear back. They may not, that may not be for them now. Yeah. But if you offer to help them, it doesn't take more than two or three of those. And you're gonna hear back.

And again, it's the start of a relationship, but it's about how you can help them. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I tell you social media isn't what it used to be with responses in that. I mean, I could, I used to put something for the pharmacy and I'd get, you know, 500 likes. Now you're lucky if five people like something. And so if you can latch onto some of those Twitter feeds of some of these local reporters, you'd be surprised at how much I think.

That they miss responses cuz there's like important stuff and a Twitter thing will get like two or three likes from a local news reporter. And if you can be one of those people that maybe follow a little bit or write something back occasionally, or maybe share it, you know, I mean, boy, you're gonna be golden to them.

David Geier, MD: Yeah. I couldn't agree more with that. In fact, I need to do more of that. I, I just, one of the things I've cut back on a little bit is my consumption of social media. That's just because it becomes a time suck, but you're exactly, you're absolutely right. Maybe you don't directly message them right off the bat.

Maybe you just follow. Share, you know, once every few days, a story that they wrote or comment every few days and say, or just, Hey, I love that story or whatever it is just occasionally yeah. Start to build a relationship over two and three weeks, and then yeah, maybe you decide, Hey, I got this idea, uh, for this topic.

I think you're, it'd be perfect for you, that kind of thing. But yeah, absolutely. Uh, Twitter is really good for that, but I, I suspect that you could probably do that on just about anything. My experience with Instagram and, and the media is most journalists, most reporters are using Instagram for personal stuff.

So that probably wouldn't work as well for Instagram, but definitely Twitter and LinkedIn, I think would be the two places I feel like you could do that really well. I think the 

Mike Koelzer, Host: news people like Twitter. Yeah. I see a lot of local news people on Twitter, more than other things I'm thinking about. And I think Twitter is kind of like that.

Cool social media for a journalist, because that's where a lot of stuff's happening on Twitter, as far as political discord and, and that kind of stuff, more so than LinkedIn and, and so on. And 

David Geier, MD: Twitter's great because it's instant reaction. I feel like it's, by far, the best social media for reactions to some breaking event, whether it, the capital riots, whether it's, it doesn't even have to be bad, it can be good.

It can be, you know, some, I mean, we all remember the tweets after the Oscars and that one selfie that had like [00:45:00] 17, uh, celebrities and it got like. 31 million retweets or something, I'm making the number up, but yeah, Twitter is really good for quick things. And, and the news stations still both at the national level and local put the Twitter handles a lot of times on their Chirons on screen during the, during the, uh, story.

Yeah. On there. So absolutely Twitter. I, I, I love Twitter, my only issue with Twitter and I don't know how you feel about it. I'm I, I try to stay outta politics generally. Not just media, just all the time and Twitter can get kind of angry sometimes. And so you have to make sure to sort of cultivate your feed with people.

Maybe it's just, you know, people you enjoy and then the local media and try to tune out as much of the other stuff as you can. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, David you're exactly right. And a lot of our listeners are pharmacy owners. I'll take a stand occasionally online. If there's something I really care about, but very rarely am I doing something even personally, online, politically or something, you know, it just doesn't make sense for me.

I mean, I, enough people don't like me as a person rather than not liking me for something. I took a stand online. If it's not that important to me, you're probably the same way you don't need to piss off half the population by getting on there about politics and things like that. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. Generally politics, religion, you know, those kinds of things.

There are intelligent people on both sides of those types of issues. And I, I feel like if you, uh, get really opinionated, you do risk sort of alienating people and, and, you know, there's common sense with a lot of this. Anyway, you know, you wanna show a personality on social media, but you don't want too many pictures of you drinking online.

If you're trying to be an expert, uh, in the media, you know, you don't wanna be, I think, you know, there's a fine line. Maybe we probably have to be a little bit more professional than the average person needs to be on social media. If we're gonna try to then also be seen or heard on the radio, seen on TV, that kind of thing.

So you just might be careful about what you post and, and definitely try to avoid the, uh, sensitive issues, uh, publicly, you know, tho you can delete tweets, you can delete posts, you know, but that stuff lives online forever. So just, you know, just think about what your goals are and maybe kind of keep some of that to your, your, your personal life, not your online life.

Yeah, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: someday. I think, you know, if I get rid of the pharmacy or something, I might be more vocal, but then it's like, ah, screw it. By that time. I'll probably be so set in my ways. I won't really care to even see who's on my side or not. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. It's not to say you can't make it work. I mean, there's tons of people that are very opinionated and they use that to their advantage.

Uh, but right. I think I, more often than not, for those of us in medicine, that's probably something that is probably worth staying away from. And then depending on where you work, you have to be careful that you say something. If you work for a corporation or you work for an academic program or something, you may say something that they don't like, and then you get issues there.

So you just have to, that may not be social media may, may not be the best place for certain topics You don't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: own your 

David Geier, MD: own practice? Correct. So I was at an academic medical center for eight years, and then I was at, uh, an employed, hospital, uh, employed physician thing where I was the director of, uh, sports medicine at a private hospital here for seven and a half.

I just left. I'm actually between practices. I'll sh I should be starting here in the next couple weeks, but it'll be, uh, private practice. The next thing I'm doing. Uh, so I'll have a little bit more personal incentive to grow my practice and get more patients using the media than even I did back in the first two.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You're probably not talking about something too controversial when it's on the medical side, did you ever get stung or have to watch yourself something that you might have done differently if you were an owner versus an 

David Geier, MD: employee? The trick went with my first two practices and I think this is gonna apply to a lot of pharmacists and certainly a lot of physicians, whether it's academics or you're an employed physician, eh, they may or may not be super excited about you doing the media.

Certainly the interviews that come through public relations or marketing, they're gonna be all for. But if you're going out and pitching, you probably need to have those discussions either before you sign your contract in the first place, or certainly before you start doing the media to just make sure you're not, uh, doing something that they don't agree with.

I got that advice before I started at the academic center and it was the best advice I could ever get because then when the chairman changed and the marketing directors changed and all of a sudden those people didn't like it. I said, Hey, you know, I ran this. By everybody on the front end, you know, it solves a lot of headaches.

You'd be surprised at partners and colleagues. They think, ah, he's just gonna be doing stuff on his own. It's his own free time. What do we [00:50:00] care about until you start getting a lot of patience because of it? And then they're jealous and then there becomes issues. So I, I would strongly suggest you have those discussions on the front end and then, and maybe even there's like an email trail.

So it's, it's not as big of a deal as far as you know, I would say that I'm always at least careful to a certain extent. I mean, I'm never so buttoned up that, oh, I've only gotta say this and I can't say anything else, but I do try to stick to topics that I feel comfortable with. And if I'm not, I'll either reach out to people, uh, that are experts in that area and get information or, or decline the interview.

So I've been careful on both sides and. I guess on the, as I head into a private practice setting, yes. I'm trying to grow my practice, but what we all have to remember there is when you're doing these media interviews, it's not about you, and it's not about promoting your practice as you share the helpful information that Chiron will be on the bottom of the screen, or they'll introduce where you work.

That's how you get people. But if you go in there trying to sell, it'll actually be sort of counterproductive. And so I'm not so worried about it. Selling so much and trying to grow. I feel like if I share good information and I do it enough times, those patients will come. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I know a lot of us are fans of Gary V. I don't know if you know Gary Vanerchuk and he's like, yeah, he's, he's great.

He's been on forever. And he said, it'll be, he'll be three years into something before somebody knows he runs a thousand person media agency. He just never talks about it. Yeah. I've got a professional friend who runs a podcast called retail pharmacy. So it's a play on the words, retail and retail. So he gets on for a half hour every Friday and talks about all the crazy stuff that's happened.

He uses his real name, but he doesn't use the name of. chain pharmacy itself. And I'm sure that, well, I, I don't know. He probably, you know, he's gotta watch it sometimes, I think, but also it's like, you can't stay with me everything. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. There's not a right answer to that. It really depends on your goals. And then the sort of the employment situation, if you own your own pharmacy, then there would be no issue.

But yeah, if it's for CVS or Walgreens yeah. Either maybe you discuss it with whoever you need to in that, that corporation or yeah. You just don't disclose where you work. I mean, it is tricky and, and again, there's, there's not an absolute right answer. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Do you ever come across something cringe worthy from other medical professionals online?

Something it's like, ah, that's, that's tacky. 

David Geier, MD: Well, it probably tastes as much as anything, so, yeah. Right. I don't know if he's the biggest. Physician on YouTube, but he's gotta be one of 'em and, uh, if he's not the most and he's, I mean, I've got like 56,000 YouTube subscribers. I think this guy's got like 8 million, so who am I to be critical?

But there's a guy that, uh, named Dr. Mike. I don't remember his last name. Uh, and he's, uh, family medicine, I think, but most of his website or most of his YouTube videos are, uh, watching shows like Doggie Houser or ER, and making fun of them. And it's funny. I mean, he. Funny don't get me wrong. It's just not what I would do.

It would be really 

Mike Koelzer, Host: odd for you to do it. You'd feel cringy yourself. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. I'm, I'm not funny. So that's, , that's easy enough. Uh, I'm not funny, but it's not what I'm trying to do, but in his defense, he's not on YouTube trying to really give medical advice either. The reason I think it's interesting is he's now become the, one of the medical experts or maybe the medical exer uh, expert for Fox business network.

And so I see him on that. And then I think of his YouTube videos and I'm like, huh, that's kind of interesting, but you know, it works for him. So I have, I have no issue with it. It would feel weird for you. Yeah. It's not me. I, I, in fact, I have worked hard, uh, over the last few years showing a little bit more personality and interviews because to be fair people.

Don't want just a, you know, somebody in a suit all buttoned up with no personality. So I, I do try, uh, to show more personality, but yeah, that type of thing, trying to be funny and, and, you know, Amus, the audience has, would never be my goal. It's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Interesting you say that because something that really makes me cringe is when somebody, I don't know why this gets under me so much, but it really gets me when someone says about themselves and they say, I'm funny.

I don't know why that gets to me so much. It's something I would never say. I think it's too subjective and I would never put myself on that pedestal. I talk about the show being interesting and entertaining. That's a wider net. You know, people can find it interesting and different things entertaining, but I've never said I'm funny.

Because I don't know if I am, that's up to someone else to say that, but it's interesting to hear you say you are not [00:55:00] funny. How do you make that determination? What do you see inside of yourself where you say 

David Geier, MD: I'm not funny? I guess I would say I don't, I rarely try to be funny. I can be funny. My son laughs at some of my stupid jokes sometimes.

So I GU I guess it's not awful. You 

Mike Koelzer, Host: don't present yourself as hoping somebody gets a laugh out of it, 

David Geier, MD: correct? Yeah. And, and it's, it's interesting. So my, uh, my, my main media coach that I've worked with for years, I mentioned, uh, earlier Roger Love, uh, out in Hollywood is real good friends with Steve Corll.

And he always talks about how Steve Corll is like, never tries to be funny unless people expect him to be funny, but he would much prefer just having a normal conversation. And I, and I, and Roger. He's really funny too, but it's just sort of natural in the setting, but the harder you try at it, sometimes the worse that goes.

And so when I'm funny, it's usually just because I make some kind of witty comment that is sort of off the cuff. I, if I try to be funny, it isn't gonna be funny. I've learned that. But if, if I just say something that sort of amuses me, like something I see is ironic or weird that that does. Okay.

Me trying to do videos where I'm making fun of ER and Douggie Houser and whatever other medical shows, I'd struggle to find something to talk about. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I've always hated. Like, you know, it'd be a school function or something, and some of the dads would get up and do some Y M C skid or something like that.

And I would never put myself in that position. I just don't know why I don't like to have, I don't like to be in a position where I say I'm doing something and I hope I'm entertaining you. And I hope you're laughing at me, I just, I do not want that if something comes out some way fine, but I, I, I just don't like that.

Maybe it's too much pressure. I don't know. Well, and 

David Geier, MD: I think we naturally, and this is true in healthcare, but it's truly true. We all probably do this, everybody. Uh, you sort of naturally, as we get older, we get further in our careers. We kind of figure out what our skills are. Even if we don't name it. Like somebody told me one time.

Because I do a lot of public speaking too. And, uh, uh, I worked with somebody, uh, that was helping me kind of get to the next level of public speaking. And she told me your skill is telling stories. And I never thought about that interesting before, but I do that all the time with patients. Whereas I'll tell a story of somebody else that had that injury and, and, and, and I in my own life.

And so that's probably why I'm much better at telling short stories to make a point or than to tell a joke. And it's not to say that the one's better than the other. It's just what I've become good at. And I think all of us can kind of figure out what our skills are. Yeah. And I think we know 'em, we just may not have a name for it, but we know what we do well, and what patients like about us.

And then you just figure out areas where you can multiply that and use it in a bigger, bigger way. I think we 

Mike Koelzer, Host: as humans, sometimes we like the challenge of not doing something that comes naturally. It's like, oh yeah, I'm a storyteller, but I'm gonna force this. It's like, no, go with your 

David Geier, MD: strength. Yeah, absolutely.

The advice is typically you wanna focus on making your strengths better rather than bringing your weaknesses up. Cause you're not gonna make your weaknesses at best. Maybe you make 'em average, um, or mediocre, you're better off just taking your 1, 2, 3 strengths and becoming a superstar in those areas.

That is such 

Mike Koelzer, Host: great advice. And I don't know why, why we don't follow it more. Maybe. Taught growing up that things shouldn't be easy, you know? And so you're trying to find some, that's hard on purpose. It's like, don't do it. Yeah. Stick with your strength, David, as you make the step to your national path, what divisions of coaches are there.

What do they help with different stuff? That's really interesting. 

David Geier, MD: There's lots of different aspects to being good in the media. And if you're just trying to do it. You know, local things to build your business. You may only need a few of these. Um, and so I'll kind of share all the different things that are the skills that are probably useful in the media, and then some you, you can hire out or some you can hire to teach you, but it's getting the interview and then being great in the interview.

And so as far as being great in the interview, that's, uh, learning how to come up with a message and talking points for an interview. It's things like voice that are things like how you look at the camera and, and respond to little things. And that's all teachable. In fact, if you go online, a lot of publicists and PR firms teach courses, or will do one-on-one coaching to show you how to be great, or, you know, teach you how to be great in an interview.

And that's great, uh, what they don't teach you in. Something that I do, and I think is really important is you, you need to learn how to get interviews, how to pitch, how to develop relationships. So those are all important. I think your voice is really [01:00:00] important. And I think. Physicians, that's something that's overlooked.

And, and I don't know how I sound necessarily in this interview, but if you go back to my interviews, five years ago, four or five years ago, I have a monotone voice. Never changes. Pace, never changes, tone. It's just that it was boring. And so Roger Love really worked on helping me get more melody and, and changing the speeds and that kind of thing.

And I know that sounds dumb, but we hear more than we see even TV and certainly radio and podcasts are audio. How you, the words are important. The next most important things are how you say it. And so whether it's working with a public speaking coach to make you a better speaker or even a voice coach, I think that goes a long way.

That's sort of an underrated skill. As far as media goes, Can 

Mike Koelzer, Host: We fault medical school? Can I say that you went in as a very melodic speaker and during medical school with all the science and all that, you were trained to give your notes and to your phone and talk during your rounds and things like that.

Do you think they pulled any of that life outta 

David Geier, MD: you? Yeah, absolutely. Feel like medicine generally. And I would say this is probably true for pharmacies too. Part of it's the training of a huge volume of information on very technical things with big complex Latin origin words. Right. And so, yes, we're trying to remember all these technical details and not how we say it.

And then, uh, You're right. Whether it's in our world, you know, dictating operative notes or clinic notes where you're just trying to do it really fast. And I mean, you should hear me dictate an operative note. Well, now it's all computerized templates, but back when you could dictate, I could do, I mean, it was like the old I'm old enough to remember the original federal express before it was FedEx.

They had the commercial with the guy that talked really fast. yeah, yeah. That was me doing, uh, dictations. So I, yeah, I do feel like that some of it is we're focused on, on. Complex information and, and not how to explain it, that manifests in how our voice sounds, but it also manifests in how we relate to the patient and share that information.

I get tons of patients as second opinions where the patient went to this doctor, this surgeon, and he, or she said, Hey, you know, you've got this problem and you need surgery. And the patient comes to me saying, I don't understand what the injury is, why I need surgery or what else I can do about it. It was like they were taught to speak a foreign language.

And so medicine, we've got a lot of barriers there, whether it's our voice or just explaining information in easy to understand ways. And 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I would argue that if you break out of that monotone as a physician, or probably a lot of other professions too, You're not supposed to do that. That adds to that professionalism of smartness.

If you're just fast and throwing the words out there and things like that, you could almost be thought of as weak. If you add too much inflection to 

David Geier, MD: your voice. Yeah. There is a fine line. You just need a little bit, maybe it's not even, Melody's just, you know, you slow down on something you wanna emphasize and there's just lots of ways to do it.

I mean, it just takes, I mean, you can do this watching cable news and just, uh, don't look at the screen, just sort of close your eyes or look away and different guests, some people's voices and sound amazing, and it makes you pay more attention than to somebody who doesn't. And so, and to be fair, public speaking coaches are really good cuz on stage you have to, um, you know, cuz you're using, uh, your arms and moving around, that changes your voice too.

And so that's why I even, if you. Doing the media working on public speaking, that's a skill that really makes you good in the media for that reason. It, it, it gives some color to what you're saying. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So you're saying that if we were talking 10 years ago, you've actually had to train what we're hearing now is a trained, or at least a cognitive decision to add inflection and to give some life 

David Geier, MD: to it.

Yes. Even though it's become second nature now. Yeah. Because it seems very natural. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely true. There's just no other way to say it. Give me an example. The, of the old David, so one is, I was, I was always a baritone, so I, I would talk down here and I would talk like this and, and you should do this.

You need ACL surgery because your knee is unstable. and I'm actually apparently a natural tenor. So my voice actually is a fair amount higher than that. And so it was just adding little bits and, and I can go overboard. I did a TEDx talk years ago. This is a true story. I did a TEDx. So, um, I, this is when I first started working with Roger Love.

I didn't start working one on one. I was in a mastermind group. It was a public speaking group and there were 15 to 20 of us. And he wanted all of us to apply to this one, TEDx, uh, talk to this conference. And [01:05:00] fortunately, I was the only one in that group that was accepted, but he saw my first video.

You had to send it to him before you send it to them. And he's like, I hate your cuz. I tried. Really hard to do a lot of Melo. He's like, I hate it. I hate your you've gotta change that. It was like, it's too much melody. You don't sound professional at all. Gotcha. So like, yeah. So I mean, you can definitely overdo it, but you know, it's one of those things that, uh, it's become second nature now, but it's still not perfect.

And, and, and you know, you now I'm sounding super vain and all 

Mike Koelzer, Host: this. No, no. We're here for listeners to understand this. Yeah. 

David Geier, MD: Well, and it's some of it like, so for radio and podcast you typically are more conversational and laid back, whereas on TV you're pretty well sticking to, I mean, you don't veer off much at all.

And so it's just a little, what you're trying to do 

Mike Koelzer, Host: for TV. It almost seems like the audience is a little bit, we talked about podcasts, like being right in your ear, you know? Yes. Where on TV, the audience is always. A distance away. It seems. And that's almost like more of a theater voice or a, or on stage, you know, a little bit different.

I can see the radio or, you know, podcasting. 

David Geier, MD: Yeah. It's tone. Your message is different, but you know, TV, if it's an interview, like you're on set, that interview's gonna be two, two and a half minutes, maybe three minutes. Yeah. If it's something where they're interviewing you just to get a quote or two, your little sound bite is gonna be about seven seconds.

And so then it's just getting words. Simply whereas radio, a lot of those interviews, 10, 15 minutes. I mean, I've had radio interviews. I did one on SiriusXM the other day. That was 30 minutes of podcasts, anywhere from 15 minutes to, you know, an hour and a half, two hours. I mean, um, I mean, heck Tim Ferris, some of his podcast interviews are like three hours one, for sure.

So yeah, it is just, uh, um, I'm generally saying, Hey, personality's good, but yeah, in certain media and, and again, depending on the topic and various things, you're gonna change a little bit. You're gonna be more serious for something that's, you know, a bad story, you know, whether, you know, somebody died of this condition, you know, I did one, you know, when.

Tra BEC died of pancreatic cancer. I'm not gonna be super happy and, you know, it is just a different personality. You're not gonna, you know, be sort of not joking, but as informal in that, you know? So it's, it's a lot of, a lot of this is things that I've learned from a variety of different coaches and then a lot of it, you just do it long enough to kind of get a sense of what's appropriate.

What works, that kind of thing. You could use 

Mike Koelzer, Host: your baritone voice, like our reader of the Theran and what was, I forget her name, but once in a while, you'd see 

David Geier, MD: her. I just remember that picture. She always had the black turtle neck in the big eyes. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And once in a while, she'd be talking though, and she'd break out of her.

When she got excited or someone was pressing her, or she fell on the spot once in a while, she'd break out of her Barone voice and use this like just high , you know? So, yeah. That's an interesting thing, David, explain to me your perfect week, like seven years from now. Yeah. What's it look like? What are you doing during each of those 

David Geier, MD: days?

I will probably best case scenario. I'll be practicing maybe three days a week doing pretty much only types of patients that I wanna do, uh, which private practice that's a little easier to do than employed. Um, and maybe half days, maybe full days, I'm doing media, um, one to two days a week. And then, you know, fortunately with the home TV studio, I can do an interview if I need to right then and there anytime.

And then I'd like to do what I'm aiming to do. This is probably why I don't. You said seven years out. Hopefully not that long, but I'm, I'm, I'd like to get into a little bit of consulting for companies that make health and fitness products and apps. I'm, I'm gonna be getting my masters in, uh, behavioral science sometime in, in fact I was supposed to start at the London school of economics this fall, but because of COVID I deferred, uh, for a year, but, uh, I'd like to not only.

Help, um, people not just by giving them information, but teaching them how to lose weight, teaching them, you know, with behavioral science, in addition to medicine and with health and fitness companies, how to get them, how to have them tweet their apps so that people use 'em every day and how, you know, make the products more likely to be shared.

And more like, you know, there's lots of little things you can do. Simple stuff is changing the defaults. Like what happens if you don't do anything? What's the default action? And, uh, so I'm fascinated by all that. So I'd like to get into a little bit of that at some point, uh, over the coming year. So it would be sort of a third, a third, a third, something like that, media practice and, and consult.

Mike Koelzer, Host: you threw me on that one because I was just gonna call baloney on your saying you want three [01:10:00] days of practice, cuz I was gonna say, now David come on now, if you are doing the Fox news and you've got your own TV show and you're doing this and you're doing that, do you really wanna practice three days a week?

I was gonna ask you that, but then you threw in this other one that was like non-media two. Yeah. So is it truly a third of all these? Even if you are like the top of the top, as far as the media. You know, medical, I'll 

David Geier, MD: say yes now, because I really do love practicing and getting to tell people, telling a high school, you know, soccer player that she gets to go back to play after an ACL or something.

Like, I mean, there's really nothing better. Yeah. What would make me cut that back is if medicine keeps getting more and I'm sure this is true in pharmacy, but it keeps getting more bureaucratic where there's more documentation and more insurance issues and things like that. For sure. Where if I can make my practice time, pretty much all patient related and not all the other stuff then.

Yeah. If now that's, that's a big if, uh, depending on, you know, how you read the future, as far as. are we headed into more of an employed physician thing and more, more oversight and control maybe than there's problems, but there's also people that feel like that's all gonna break apart here in the coming years.

I don't know. So that if I can focus on actually treating patients, helping patients then sure. Uh, but no, and, and the nice thing, the media, this COVID thing has done an interesting thing. So I, I told you when I started at ABC and Fox here, I would go to the studio once a week and then COVID pretty much locked up everything that's true.

Not just locally. That's true nationally. And I don't see that going back. It's cheaper for the stations, not having to fly people in, it's cheaper for them to, just for a lot of reasons. Um, and so this. These interviews. Roger and I have talked about this. The plan was always, if I got it, I was gonna move to New York or LA.

We don't think that's ever gonna happen now that I, I'm not gonna, I can do interesting stuff from anywhere. I mean, you're this the podcast you're just listening to, but you're seeing this in talking to me on, uh, the video. Uh, this is a home TV studio. I got a green screen behind me. I've got all sorts of fancy studio lights, so I can do Fox news from here, the 4k camera and all that I can do.

I can look better than any, you know, just about anybody on Fox news or CNN or MSNBC, um, with just what I have. Uh, and so I, I don't. Media won't take that much time. What would be tricky? This is where Dr. Oz really struggles is if you do your own show, like he does, that's a lot of time. Yeah. But if you're just as an expert somewhere, you probably think Sanjay Gupta puts more than maybe 10 hours a week into his, just his CNN appearances, his show that he does, where he travels and does health stuff.

And that obviously takes, you'd have to take a lot of time off of work. So that'll be, what's kind of interesting. See, uh, going forward and you never know what opportunities are gonna come up. I mean, you know, right. A few years ago, if you had told me I was the medical expert at two local TV stations, I would've told you that was crazy.

So you never know it's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Interesting on being able to do it from home because COVID pushed stuff about 10 years, it's sped up 10 years, as far as online video and all that stuff. Certainly with physicians, it has, because the physicians might have waited a long time before they did that. If they didn't have to maybe a lot of professions, if they didn't have to, they might not be cutting edge on video when they want to be cutting edge on, on the medical stuff.

But yeah, I was on a podcast a few weeks ago and they actually sent me out kind of this case, you know, you unlocked it and you pulled it out and they actually sent their own computer and microphone and lights and camera and all that. And I set it up and I mean, it was just an iPad kind of thing, but it's like all of that precision of the equipment is.

It's available to anybody. So yeah, really no reason to have you sitting in, you know, in New York somewhere when you can be doing it in your house. 

David Geier, MD: Obviously I care about this. So I have like bought fancy stuff, but it doesn't have to be, I mean, there are high definition webcams now that you can attach to your, to your, uh, laptop or your desktop and you get a, a, I mean, decent sounding mics, aren't expensive at all.

Uh, and then a couple lights behind the computer. Uh, and you're good to go. Uh, it, you can do it. Cheap and look really good, which really, you talked about things that make me cringe. It's all the healthcare professionals on TV. Now that look and sound terrible because they're, the laptop is positioned low.

So they're looking down and the camera looking up their nose or showing the ceiling fan above him, they're dark because they've got, like, an open window behind them. So then they're black and sort of a very bright window, you know, or they're in front of a white wall. No, I mean, there's just, those are the things that [01:15:00] I know that's my, my son is always like, you're so picky about that kind of thing, but it's so easy to fix.

Like, I don't understand why you wouldn't take just a little bit of time to look and sound great. We did all this time in our training, and then we're gonna try to educate the public and, and lose the audience because we look and sound terrible. Like it just doesn't make any sense. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: But David, here's the key to all that.

Here's the key to physicians and pharmacists that want to do this. There's a very small percentage that wanna do it. Right. And thank God because it allows people like me to have a voice amongst pharmacists, just because most pharmacists don't wanna do it. They don't care. They don't care about the sound so much or the camera or the, you know, basically those things.

So if you get just a mild interest in that stuff, you can rise up above or a mild interest in saying, sure, I'll talk to them. Yeah, TV person, even though I don't send my message. Isn't black and white. There might be some gray things in there, and I'm not nervous about the gray and that kind of stuff. Boy, in our professions, you can rise up quickly.

Unlike maybe some of the things like we talked about, people that maybe a, I don't know, real estate agent or a politician or someone who's kind of almost expected to be in front of people 

David Geier, MD: a lot more. Yeah, I absolutely agree. I feel like, um, yeah, it's just, even a little bit of effort and it's not for everybody, no question.

And, and something you, that may be what you were saying. Just made me think of something, uh, kind of bringing this kind of full circle of other reasons you might want to get involved. And, and you were talking about this isn't for everybody, but right or wrong. We all know, um, practitioners in medicine, in pharmacy and really all of healthcare that we think kind of push the envelope from a business sense or maybe do things.

And they usually it's advertising, but you know, If you wanna get your message out there and you don't like the message somebody else is sharing you, being in the media, sort of keeps them out. And I know that sounds awful, but, uh, there's, there's a void. And if you don't feel that somebody else's going to, so if you give good information that helps people in their lives.

Yeah. Think about doing this cuz it, I don't know. I feel like there's people that promote all sorts of things that I don't think are best practice. And so if you do it the right way, uh, the public needs that your local town needs that, uh, rather than somebody that's just trying to make a quick buck doing something that's maybe sort of in that gray area, medically the station 

Mike Koelzer, Host: is not gonna go dark.

Right. There's gonna be something on it. And there's probably gonna be something on it. Even medically because in their mind they want a certain percentage of certain shows and so on or certain segments. So the medical segments are gonna fill up. So you're saying. Well, you better fill it if you want the right stuff out 

David Geier, MD: there.

Yeah. It might as well be you. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Hey, David, what a pleasure talking to you. Thanks for your time. This has been great. 

David Geier, MD: Oh, I really appreciate it. Yeah, I can get carried away cuz I talk about this all the time, but you know, I love it. I really appreciate, uh, just the opportunity to talk about it. And I, I love helping people that are interested in growing their practice, their business, uh, through the.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Boy, I'll be following you and I'll be tuning into the, uh, Fox news and let's get the old farts out of there. Dr. Oz and those guys, they don't need to be around anymore. 

David Geier, MD: Dr. Oz. I actually don't have as big of an issue with Dr. Oz as most physicians do. And, and here's the reason why, I mean, I know he promotes some crazy stuff.

Maybe he's got some business interest in some of it, but he still reaches five and a half million people a day. Sure. I mean, the power of that is just enormous. So I, I, I get some of the concerns, but, uh, I'm with you. I think that there's, and not just me there and there's, there are, there are physicians and other healthcare providers that are really good.

And I feel like there's room for lots of people, not, you know, hopefully I'm one of 'em, but I, I hope lots of people do this locally, regionally and nationally, because I feel like it only helps the public and the patients we're trying to serve. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: There's a lot of room for good information and no longer does that information always have to cycle through a company, you know, a middleman, you know, it can come right from the source and what better source to come from than people who are spending, even in their most wildest dreams are still spending a third of the week with patients.

You know, that's where you want that message to come from and someone that can combine it. Like you. That's a cool thing. 

David Geier, MD: Keep it up. Oh, I appreciate that, Mike. That means a lot. All right, David, we'll 

Mike Koelzer, Host: talk again. All right. Sounds great. Thank you.