Standing Out in a Busy Pharmacy Marketplace | Ashlee Hayes, PharmD, of Rx Ashlee

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[00:00:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, hello, Ashley. 

[00:00:14] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Hi Mike. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: Hey, thanks for talking with us. You're out in California. 

[00:00:20] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yes. My favorite state. your favorite state? I've lived in a lot of different states and I love being back home. So it's nice. What, 

[00:00:29] Mike Koelzer, Host: what in general brought you all over the different places that you have been?

[00:00:33] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: My, my training and my husband's training and our education. So different 

[00:00:38] Mike Koelzer, Host: different school, 

[00:00:40] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: college grad school, medical residency fellowship, my residency, my training. So yeah, it's brought us all around, but, um, ultimately now that we're somewhat settled, it takes forever in the medical world to get settled.

Um, yeah. We're I think we're settled. Let's circle back in a couple years. what do you 

[00:01:01] Mike Koelzer, Host: mean by that? Taking forever in the medical world? Do you mean as far as establishing your. Professionalism, or that's a great question. Patient 

[00:01:09] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: base or what? Yeah, that's a great question. Well, just, um, for, for me, I think personally I did a lot of training, so I went to college and then I went to pharmacy school, grad school, and then I went and did my residency and then I got my master's and then my job has taken us a few different places, but really specifically for my husband, he's an orthopedic surgeon.

So, um, you know, he is. He's 35 and in his first job so, um, yeah, it's just a long road, you know, it's a lot of upfront investment. Um, he did college then PhD switched to master's then medical school, then a five year residency program. Oh no, he did his master's for a couple years, then a five year medical residency and then fellowship.

And then he took a first job which didn't end up working out. So then we moved about six months after. That. So, geez. Now he's in a second job, but it's really, he's 35. And so it's just a long road that I don't think a lot of people are aware of unless you're living in the medical field. Yeah. So I think what ends up happening a lot of times is people are like, oh, it's so cool.

You're glamorous , it's a doctor, it's blah. But the truth be told is. I mean, we've been through a lot to get to where we are now. So it's a big investment. 

[00:02:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: I think people think about the time a lot, but I don't, I don't think they think as much about the travel. 

[00:02:26] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Oh, no. I mean, we've been away from a family essentially for 15 years.

We've um, missed out on weddings, births, uh, you know, you name it. It's been, um, a big time commitment, commitment up front. So I think I like being, I think we're kind of starting to. Starting starting to get to rape some of those benefits of yeah. Um, just, just kind of owning your career and I don't know. 

[00:02:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah.

Both. Hey, Ashley, tell us for those that don't know you. Most of the people in the pharmacy, social, uh, Sphere know who you are, but for those who, I don't 

[00:03:02] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: know, don't know, that's a, that's a lot, that's a load question for those, 

[00:03:06] Mike Koelzer, Host: for those that don't give us the, uh, yeah. Give us your, give us your rundown. The lowdown of what's hot right now for you.

Oh, 

[00:03:15] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: That's a great question. I like that question. So, um, I'm a third generation pharmacist. My grandfather was a pharmacist. My dad was a pharmacist and then I went into pharmacy school. I've always loved love, love the pharmacy profession. It has never stared me in the wrong direction. I've always had real, a lot of opportunities inside the profession.

And I think, um, one of the things that I recognized about five years ago was not everyone's at that phase, you know, where they don't see the opportunities that I, um, always had this optimistic view. And what I realized is that how can I help people get more creative? Get more transparent and, uh, develop strategy in developing their vision in their career.

And, um, so about two and a half years ago, I launched my brand of RX Ashley, which really started off in pharmacy. I helped pharmacists kind of go through career pivots or elevate their career. Even if they like their job, I help them kind of navigate their career. But what ended up happening about. Six months after I started with pharmacists the pharmacists were getting success.

And then the pharmacists would go out and tell their spouse and they would tell their sister and their cousin and their next door neighbor. And those people ended up not being pharmacists. They were architects, lawyers, professional athletes, uh, physicians, CEOs, you name it any high level professional who is motivated and wants to really.

Pick up a game in their career and just need help with, you know, just a safe place to go, to turn to real trusted support. And that's kind of what the evolution of RX Ashley has looked like. So now, um, our main focus, I don't really work one on one with people anymore. I am really focusing on developing a community, a safe place for people to turn to.

To get support in their career. And that is called a career by design. Our membership that I launched about three months ago and it has 40 people in it now. So, um, we're growing that every day. It's getting not just bigger, but just more fun and just safe and fun again, you know, bringing back some real rawness into people, into people's careers, which I.

I think the new statistic is that 50% to 90% of Americans are feeling overwhelmed, burned out in their jobs and, and this membership focus. Isn't just about how to prevent burnout. It's really how to develop strategies and implement techniques in your career to just make you feel like you're not alone.

And to make you feel like you actually have control over your career. Cause I think a lot of times people feel isolated. Right. So with working with several thousands of people over the past couple years, I've just realized what is missing. And the missing link is a lot of times it's just that support.

So, um, so that's what I'm focusing on. And I work a small percentage with one-on-one clients in, um, interview prep. So someone has an interview in a week or two or a month. I prep them for their, I. 

[00:06:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: And Ashley is this now your full-time mm-hmm 

[00:06:25] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: getting good for you. Yeah. Very full time. Good for you.

Yeah, it's um, it is full time. I mean, my hours look different than they ever have before, but, um, I think that. I'm serving people while simultaneously making, I mean, at the end of the day, right. I make money doing this. Right. So, um, I pay my bills. I pay my mortgage, I have credit cards, you know what I mean?

Like I have all that stuff too. So I think a lot of times, sometimes, especially pharmacists, they inquire. About me more like, how did you do this? You know, like, right. But the truth be told is anyone can do what I'm doing. It's just more or less if you're interested in developing a business as part of it, like a service based business, or is this kinda like your passion project, which it falls into both for me.

Okay. 

[00:07:13] Mike Koelzer, Host: So Ashley, your grandfather and your dad. Where has your grandpa passed? My 

[00:07:19] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: grandfather passed. I actually never met my grandfather. Oh, me neither. He, well, of course I didn't meet your grandfather. Yeah. 

[00:07:25] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. I get 

[00:07:25] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: it. I didn't mean mine either. So no, I totally get that. He passed away about a couple years before I was born.

He owned, uh, he was first generation. Us citizens. He immigrated from Mexico and, uh, he owned a pharmacy downtown Los Angeles, and he actually went to the university of Southern California. My dad went to the University of Southern California and then I went to the University of Southern California for pharmacy school.

So I, I, I really have this strong legacy. 

[00:07:49] Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. What, what stopped you mm-hmm or, or I, I know you said you had. In you. Yeah. But if that wasn't in you to do something different. Sure. What path would you have followed, do you think? Would you have gone? Well, I 

[00:07:59] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: don't feel like I ever ma you know, I get that question a lot.

I don't feel like I don't belong in pharmacy. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't have that feeling of what else I should have done if I didn't do pharmacy, I never have that regret feeling. I never have that. Oh, no. Let 

[00:08:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: I go this way with it though. Yeah. You've you've gone different than the typical pharmacist might pharmacist might pharmacist might do.

Sure. Was there a path that you would've followed 

[00:08:28] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: your dad in? Oh yeah. Yeah. My dad was, yeah. Great question. So my dad was a chief pharmacy officer, a large academic medical center, but he had like 20 different careers within his one career. My dad passed away in middle pharmacy school. So. He's been a huge mentor of mine over my whole life.

He, he, he just always loved his career. I mean, he just had such a robust career and I always admired that about him. He didn't always work as quote unquote, a traditional pharmacist. He stayed at home with me for 10 years. He raised me, essentially. My mom went back to work, so I just saw him dip into all these cool differences.

Now it wasn't called a side hustle when we were growing when I was growing up, but a passion project and just side businesses. He was a realtor. He. He owned a baseball. This is so funny. He owned a softball stadium for, cause I grew up playing, um, competitive sports. And so he got into this softball, baseball realm of batting cages.

So he owned that for a couple of years. I just saw that he really genuinely loved his career. And then, so it wasn't, the foundation was pharmacy. Like he learned 

[00:09:25] Mike Koelzer, Host: all of that, that you, it wasn't that you. Um, switch from your dad's role. Your dad was the role 

[00:09:31] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: model for that. Oh, a hundred percent. My dad gave me the foresight to understand you have control of your career.

You can do whatever the heck you want. Like literally my dad didn't work for 10 years. He, when I was born, uh, he sold his pharmacies in the eighties, in the early eighties and he sold them didn't he had, at that time, it was a pretty lucrative, um, A career to go down, owning an independent pharmacy and right.

He didn't work. He worked as a consultant. I think part-time very little, but he raised me basically. And my mom went back to work full-time and so, and then when I got to middle school, he went back to work and he had a huge career. I mean, he just built, he rocked it. So I had the. Front row seat to, to see how you can build your career from all different starting points.

I mean, peaks and troughs. Yes. Beyond . 

[00:10:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. People often have a guilt feeling of something of not using their, you know, not using their career for what they're supposed to be using it for, but that. There's no such thing as 

[00:10:38] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: that. Right. And, and I get that a lot. Like, do you regret going to the pharmacy?

Did you only go into pharmacy because your parents wanted you to do you, were you aren't really a pharmacist and I just ask people, like, what, what does that even mean? I, first of all, I'm slightly offended. cause like, right. I am a pharmacist, I have a license. I took a residency program. I mean, I was, I was on the path to becoming like a chief pharmacy officer or, or someone like a big leader in industry.

Right. But ultimately what happened. If you want me to get into that, what happened was my husband's job moved us around a bit, a lot. And as I was moving around, as I was interviewing for other consulting positions, and as I was developing my own career, I took a step back and I asked myself some serious questions.

Like, what is most important to me? How do I define success? And what type of legacy did I wanna leave behind for my family? Cause my dad and my grandfather left me such a big one that I wanted to kind of define that on my own terms. And I realized the things that I was innately good at, such as articulating myself during interviews, really standing out in a busy marketplace.

How can I help other people do that? Because I saw, I witnessed as I was identifying myself and my strengths, I witnessed there's so many people out there who are really, really smart, really, really talented, super educated, super knowledgeable, amazing experts in their field, but they lack the ability to communicate and articulate themselves during situations like an interview.

So that's where I recognize, Hey, I could help those people. And that's really where the inception of arts Ashley came from just just a couple years. 

[00:12:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: Where does Ashley do you at some point and I know that there's no reason to apologize for a pharmacy career. Yeah. At some point, do you hide that? For example?

Does it ever become a well, an example. Okay. Um, you're, you're on a talk show or something, and, and you're saying all the stuff about career and stuff like that. Does pharmacy play into that or is that a hindrance to, for someone to say, oh, you're a pharmacist. Well that, yeah, boy, if you're a pharmacist, you must have the same, uh, personality as an accountant or as a, you know, rocket engineer or something.

Do, do you ever see yourself? Not. 

[00:12:57] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Talking about my past. Talking 

[00:12:58] Mike Koelzer, Host: about that. 

[00:12:59] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: I'm not saying you should. I'm just wondering, you know, that's a great question. I think people don't really care. They just wanna know if they, if I can help them. They think it's cool that I have a background and that I can speak medical language and that I'm very educated.

I think this is just from the feedback I've gotten just from a client last week. He's like, I read all about you and it's so cool, but can you help me get this job interview? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, right. At the end of the day, it's more about them, which I love. That's why they hired me.

It's about them. It's not me at all. Yeah. But, um, Do I find myself hiding behind my pharm? D do I, do I find myself shying away from it as I grow my brand? And as I become beyond quote unquote, just a pharmacist, sometimes I do, to be honest, because I feel like it holds me back sometimes if I'm being totally 

[00:13:47] Mike Koelzer, Host: honest.

Um, yeah, no, I, I, I can see that. And I've wondered that I'm not at that level by any means, but I've I've um, because 

[00:13:53] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: I think the culture in pharmacy. and what we think is very isolated bubble ish. Yeah. Yeah. And I like to just think that there's no bubble. Like I am, I, there are no limitations, right? Yeah. 

[00:14:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: You, you're not putting yourself into a box, but sometimes right.

By nature of that degree, people are putting you into a box. Like you can't go outside of that. I dunno. 

[00:14:15] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Maybe. I dunno. I dunno. I think that's a great question. Something for me to really like, kind of reflect on and meditate on. I don't necessarily believe I do that myself intentionally, but I might, I might, you know, well, 

[00:14:28] Mike Koelzer, Host: all right.

So Ashley, you've got a love for the one-on-one interviewing you. Take it to this, you take it to this group setting. Mm-hmm um, What what's what's five years from now. 

[00:14:42] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: My goal is to help millions and millions of people elevate their careers and to get them to feel like they're successful in whatever they determine successes to them, whether you're a CEO of a large multimillion dollar company or you're a stay-at-home mom.

Um, my goal is to teach people that they get to own their career and own their life. No matter who's standard. 

[00:15:01] Mike Koelzer, Host: Um, is that through your group? Is that through? Process this group setting, or do you have to do something or is this a step to something else? Oh, 

[00:15:10] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: so, I mean, for now this is, this is all my eggs are in this basket.

I mean, this is really my, my baby. So it's my child that I've birthed. This is really where I'm focusing on. My goal is to help the people inside this group as best I can. And I'm putting all of my energy into that now with that said, 

[00:15:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: So you're very, you're very visible as a leader of those groups. Very.

Gotcha. 

[00:15:30] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Gotcha. Yeah. And I'm accessible. Um, and with that said, though, I definitely have goals of helping more people reach more people, but it's all about how do you get more people on board without necessarily it just being me, so, right. Um, but that's, that's kind of like down the road, maybe some books or some other things you.

Alright, what are 

[00:15:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: some of those? So, so books. 

[00:15:54] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yeah. I mean , this is a great question. Um, books, I envision, you know, I'm a keynote speaker and I love speaking in different audiences. Last week I spoke at the American pharmacist association next week. I'm speaking at the young architect conference, which is totally different.

Well, that's cool. Yeah. And, and that's kind of the realm I'm in, I'm really growing in different professions. Everything I do is transferable. It doesn't have to be just isolated to the pharmacy. It doesn't have to be just isolated to one industry. So, um, see, I'm wondering 

[00:16:27] Mike Koelzer, Host: there, if you get up on stage there and if it's good or bad to say I'm.

I'm a pharmacist. Do people know that when you hop on stage after the text 

[00:16:36] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: place? Well, my bio talks about that, you know, hopefully someone will read my bio next week. if anybody reads those. Right, right. But it's more about how you, how I, so ultimately what people care about is not necess. And this is what I tell clients too, not necessarily your background, but how can you help them solve the problem that they have?

What is the solution you bring to the table? What's your value that you bring to the table that will help them, right? It's about the audience. Like even right now, even right now, as we're talking, it's about me and you having a great conversation, but ultimately at the end of this, I hope the people who are listening, walk away with a different perspective, a different idea, it's really about serving them.

And so when I have that mindset, it's not about me. It has nothing to do with me. I'm just a vehicle of information. All 

[00:17:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: right. Devil's advocate here. You teach someone to. Say I can solve this. I can solve this. I can solve this. And every manager says, we need people to step up to the plate, yeah. And do this and that.

But then someone comes and they say, I can do this. I can do this. And the manager says, yeah, but you didn't say anything about, um, doing what I want you to do. you can. Yeah. I mean, can, can, can that, can that turn, can that turn people away? If, if the, um, applicant. Shows almost too much confidence. I don't think so.

I just wanna be a devil's advocate. What are your thoughts on. 

[00:17:53] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: On having too much confidence or not meeting the expectations of the manager. 

[00:17:58] Mike Koelzer, Host: yeah. Like, like, like someone let's say someone applies to the pharmacy, let's say, and they say, well, I can, I can lead your pharmacy into doing this and this and this.

And I'm like, oh shoot. I kind of was, I kind of was just looking for a staff, someone to do. Yeah. Or a staff or something to do, to, to carry out ideas with me, not necessarily to be a new leader. And I suppose it's what company you're in too. Yeah. 

[00:18:22] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: I think it's about meeting each other's expectations and yeah, depending upon how badly this person wants the job, they will be flexible to what you want cuz you are the owner.

Um, but ultimately I think having a candid conversation saying, Hey, this is what we need. Can you fulfill it? If not, then you're not gonna get selected. That's what hap you know what I mean? That's the bottom line. And it depends on what the candidate is seeking too. If that's not what they're looking for, then why would they take the job?

It doesn't make sense to 

[00:18:49] Mike Koelzer, Host: me. Yeah. Yeah. They're usually gonna be coming into a place that needs that kind of thing. Well, everybody wants a match, I guess, I guess at just different levels of, and you're not really dealing with people that are more than likely at, you know, minimum wage entry spots where, you know, the local hamburger joint wants someone not to.

I mean that not to have a vision, they just 

[00:19:11] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: wanted to flip burgers, you know? Right. The people that I work with are. Incredibly brilliant educated professionals. Sure. Um, they are motivated. They just need help kind of tweaking their pitch. Right. Right. And, and again, articulating themselves really effectively, and communicating their message clearly.

And that's, and it's not hard. It takes a couple of hours. And for interview prep. Yeah. It, really, isn't hard. It, I mean, it's, it's investing, it's a little bit of investing in themselves and actually getting them to commit to themselves and committing to. You know, going through the course and going through, cuz I put them through a course before they meet with me.

So that takes about three hours and then they, and then I give them homework kind of stuff like that. And we go, we meet over something like what we're meeting in right now, kind of an online platform. And we work at it. It's not necessarily the most easy work, but if they want the job, how badly do you want it?

And we 

[00:20:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: get them there. How many times? I imagine you're past that now with your own stuff. You're, you're maybe using some of your. Tips and hints to sell yourself and not really to get your own job, I guess you still have to sell yourself all the time. Don't ever. Yeah. Yeah. , 

[00:20:22] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: That's a lot of times my client, you know, I had a client last week who, um, loved her.

She didn't get the job that she wanted and, and, and she called me crying and it was this whole disaster, but, and I was like, listen, and I'm gonna say her name, Sarah, like Sarah, that's not her name, but I'm giving her a fake name. Sarah got it. Listen, like, do you understand that people say no to me, every single one?

Do you understand that I'm in it with you? Like I get it. Like you have to understand you're not gonna be a perfect fit for everyone. Not everyone's gonna love you. Not everyone's gonna wanna buy from you, whether you're an employee or me as an entrepreneur or a standalone business owner. Right. So I get rejected literally on the regular

I mean, it's like a, it's like a thing. And I think people forget that. Right. They see my face on social media, but ultimately, right. I mean, I'm paying bills too. I'm put, I have to, I have to build that resilience muscle. Yeah. 

[00:21:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: You know, I've been, so I've always had my life owning a pharmacy where customers come in and they're like ready to buy.

But just with this little bit of podcasting, I'm doing it's you, you learn rejection right away, but you have to have that rejection to get enough. Numbers to have that acceptance of people that, that, you know, will agree to be on the show or wanna be on the show and so on. 

[00:21:37] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yeah. I mean, then it's all about making sure it's the right fit and making sure, yeah.

You know, it is what you wanna be doing. All that stuff comes to, to play. 

[00:21:47] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Tell me, tell me actually about your first, um, time where you said. Oh, my gosh, I just made money on that. I mean, cuz everybody's got business ideas and so on. Was that kind of a thrill when you did that change much when you said, I mean maybe you always pictured in your head of saying, holy cow, I just, I just got paid for like this consultation with somebody not, not a pharmacy consultation name.

Yeah, sure. A business consultation. Yeah. Do you remember that? Was that a significant event 

[00:22:16] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: or? Um, so here's the thing. Failure. Isn't really an option to me. It's just more about how do I tweak my plan. And I do remember the first time that, um, not necess. I do remember the first time someone paid me, but I wasn't as excited about it because I had bills to pay.

And my husband was like, listen, you can do whatever you want, but you have to be able to pay back your student loans and you have, we have to be able to pay our bills. So. So you were under the gun. So I was like, yes. I mean, I was all in, you know, so there's that one, but two, I do just specifically, remember I had a client two years ago, I was working with him a few sessions on kind of helping him navigate where he wanted to go next.

He was at work. He was in a career transition at the time, and I was helping him build his personal brand, kind of getting him some confidence that he needed to transition to the next step. And after working together for two or three sessions, he called me. He's like, Ashley, I got the interview. Can you help me?

At the time I had no idea that I wanted to be an interview prep person. I was like, sure. like, yeah, yeah, right. Pay me. Sure. I can do that. I whipped something up within an hour. The next morning we were interviewed prepping him and we did a couple of hours together. The following week, he flew out to California.

He was in Pennsylvania. He got the job. He called me a week later. He said, Ashley, you changed my life. You should have charged me more. Yeah. And I said, here it goes, all right, this is an idea. I, I recognize that, Hey, people need this help. He's willing to pay me. And you know what? I just, I helped him change his life.

He got his dream job. So I don't really look at the money as much as the thrill. It's more about seeing the opportunity of how I can actually really change. Someone's. Right. So the money comes because I have to pay my bills, right? Like me, I have to charge because this is my business. It's not my passion project.

It's a blend of my passion project and, and all of the awesomeness that comes with it. 

[00:24:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: When well you and, and, and you certainly can, this is no news to you, but just for the listeners who maybe are not at the stage, you certainly can price yourself too low for somebody who only has one shot. If someone's got one shot at an interview, right.

And there's. Two of you they're choosing from, and you're priced at three X and the other person's priced to X. Right. They sometimes want to go for the three X because they think that you've got the, the, the three times the advantage to offer them. Yeah. 

[00:24:41] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: And I think it's just, everyone starts from nothing.

Right? I mean, I didn't just start with all this. I started from scratch zero, nothing. I had nothing. I had no interview prep experience. I had no career pivot experience. I just had. A knack, an innate strength to wanna help people. And I think it shows through when I work with clients. I mean, I think people.

See how dedicated I am and I wanna really help them. So the results are there, you just gotta show your results first, before someone wants to really buy in, I have an entrepreneurial spirit, so just right. My dad was an entrepreneur. My grandfather was an entrepreneur. My mom was an entrepreneur, so I have that kind of bug in me to want to grow.

But yeah, I, I, I don't know. Honestly, I'm so focused on achieving the goal of helping as many people as I can right now through this membership. That's where it lies, but ultimately, oh yeah. I would like to put on more live events. I would like to hold in-person retreats. I mean, you name it. I'm in it.

I love that stuff. 

[00:25:42] Mike Koelzer, Host: One 

of my daughters graduated from high school this year and her friend is an influencer on, 

[00:25:48] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: I don't even know what that means. Everyone can be an influencer. Like what's an influencer. Let's talk about that. What's an influencer? 

[00:25:54] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, 

[00:25:55] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: you're an influencer. 

[00:25:57] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, I, I I've got like one, she's got like 1.9 million followers.

I've got like 1.9 people who are followers 

[00:26:06] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Hey, 

if some, if one person is you can make such a big influence on that one person. So I don't wanna devalue 

that. 

[00:26:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Talk about. Some of the recent news about the 600 pharmacists layoff at Walmart and the 200 Walgreens closing. Right. What advice do you have to somebody listening right now?

[00:26:26] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: It devastates me in the sense that how do I say this in the most empathetic way possible? We had to have known this was eventually coming. Um, and I think it's a matter of how we respond, right? Mm-hmm , it's how, collectively, how strong we are as a profession. And we really in this economy, in this marketplace, unfortunately, there's not a lot of safe territory.

Mm-hmm and this is not a pharmacy problem. This is not an isolated pharmacy problem. So we need to get that across to pharmacists. This is not an isolated pharmacist problem. People get laid off, lose jobs every single day. So how we define what is safe to us, there is not a ton of safe space anymore.

No. So I think we have to get really, really crystal clear what's most important to us individually. And ask those people, like what, what are we doing to help ourselves other than just depending on someone else to do what you do own a Pharmacy. Right. Um, I have myself gone through a career transition. I witnessed my dad go through multiple career transitions.

I've been with my husband who has gone through career transitions and just him eight, nine months of practicing medicine. So, yeah. Right. I don't want people to feel isolated. Yeah. You know, just because my face is spread all over, LinkedIn doesn't necessarily mean I'm. I, I, like I said before, I've been, I'm rejected every single one.

So the rejection feeling isn't something that you should feel alone in, it's how do you bounce back and what are you gonna do next? I mean, that's, that's what it's about. And this is not the end of the road for them. No, but we do have to understand that we do have control over our careers. You just have to own it.

I mean, that's, it's really important and, and it might sound like I'm lacking empathy. That's not my, that's not my intention because I want people to know. I mean, I've been unemployed. I've been through career pivots. I've been through all that. Right, right. I'm not an isolated victim, but you do have to ask yourself some hard questions.

What, how, how badly do you want to get to your next level in your career and what are you willing to do to get there? Right. What's holding you back? 

[00:28:49] Mike Koelzer, Host: Right. So actually, if someone's listening to this, like, Right now, like it's, uh, let's say it's noon on the day. They're listening to this and they're, um, you know, driving around and have just happened.

Could you, can you think of any advice to give them something that they could do right now, whether it's reading a book or calling a friend or doing whatever? 

[00:29:13] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Totally. So first and foremost, get your unemployment. That is, I don't think anyone. Teaches us that in pharmacy school or in any type of life, I mean go and they can start that online.

Probably. I think so ASAP. I reach out to your state, get unemployment. You pay into that, so don't not get it. So that's first and foremost, second don't panic, you know, don't don't panic three. Yeah. Pull over and ask yourself what is most important to you? What do you need immediately in order to get you afloat?

You just gotta stay afloat for a while. A career pivot takes anywhere between three months and three years. So what do you need to do to get you closer to what your idea, vision of success means in your career and take steps, small steps every single day, 5, 10, 15 minutes to get you there. Because it takes a while.

It takes. Yeah, 

[00:30:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: it takes a while. And, and, and right now the first thing might be just getting past the next bill or something. But, but paying the next bill doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna be doing that for the rest forever because that pivot takes a long 

[00:30:24] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: time. I mean, no, I would love to support those people in my membership.

It's just. we have to have more of a growth mindset than a fixed mindset. And what I mean by that is a fixed mindset is, well, this is it. This is my career trajectory. This is where I am, and this is all I can do. I'm only a traditional pharmacist. I've only worked inside these four walls. This is all I can do.

Now, if we can pivot to a growth mindset, that's where you can really elevate yourself and learn, invest in yourself, do some discovery, do some constant learning. That's where I think you can find your sweet spot in that growth mindset. A lot of times people who are burnt out are in that fixed mindset of, oh, I'm screwed.

This is it. This is, this is, this is my calling. I went to pharmacy school, so I have to just be a traditional pharmacist. Right. That's the only option for me. That's not a, that's not an accurate sentiment in my experience. Yeah. So, and I know that sounds a little, I don't mean it to sound harsh. I'm just telling the truth.

You have to be in that continuous learning curve. I just see so many opportunities inside a pharmacy that I'm very optimistic that it's there. You just have to go and get it and you have to create it. 

[00:31:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: Ashley, what kind of, uh, things in your business world right now give you headaches or keep you up or on your worry scale?

If 

[00:31:46] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: anything, that's a good question. I think quite frankly, the hardest thing for me is balancing. My personal life with my professional life. I mean, to be totally honest, my husband works a lot. We have a lot going on with us, our kids and our family. And, and I think I I'm giving my heart and soul to my business, but it's really just about juggling all of the different acts and learning how to really focus and strategize and, and turning down opportunities that maybe a couple years ago, I would thought would be the most exciting thrilling of all.

But once you get to a certain point, you just have to really focus on it. Yeah, you gotta focus on what success means to me and, and really stay crystal clear on my number one priority and that's to serve the people and, and to help them understand what opportunities are ahead of themselves.

[00:32:35] Mike Koelzer, Host: Now, let's say the reverse of that, that you've got pretty much any money or any mm-hmm , um, administration help at your disposal. What are you doing? Job wise? Business wise during the day. 

[00:32:54] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yeah. Okay. 

[00:32:55] Mike Koelzer, Host: That's a great question. What's the most satisfying, if you didn't have to deal with all the red tape 

[00:32:59] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: that we all yeah, totally.

I get that. I mean, I hate logistics. I hate backend stuff. Um, but as a sole business owner, you gotta do all that stuff. Um, what am I doing? I'm writing. I love writing. Writing. Yeah. I love, love writing. I love to come out with blogs multiple times a month. I love it. Free writing. I never really loved writing until probably about a couple years ago when I started working with, um, an editor and she really helps me develop my tone in my writing.

And it's just gotten better and better throughout the years. And so I love writing. I love writing emails to my audience. I love connecting with them. I love, um, creativity is something that I thrive on to mm-hmm mm-hmm so. Developing 15 minute tutorials for the membership. I love doing that because ultimately it gets to one person and like, I get to talk to one person at a time, but it's really hundreds of people, so, yeah.

Right. Um, developing those types of tutorials is really fun for me too. 

[00:34:03] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. All right. So now, we covered those two. The last question would be, these are great questions. If, oh, well, thank you. Mm-hmm um, I, I think that we've all been through enough of the, um, the, the ones that we think we have to cover.

So I like to kind of Peck around 

the 

[00:34:24] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: edges a little bit. No, it's good. It's helpful. I think people need to understand that. 

[00:34:29] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. It helps you, it helps you open up. 

[00:34:31] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yeah. And I mean ideas a little bit. Yeah. And I think that we focus so much on that. The stuff that you can read on my website. I think it's hard.

Well, for people to really understand who I am and where I come from. It's nice. Well, that's 

[00:34:45] Mike Koelzer, Host: that's and, and that's one of my, one of my thoughts is I like to, um, I didn't preface our conversation with this, but it's fun for me to, to talk to leaders and. Ask them things that I can't read. Right. Ask them things that none of their employees could tell me or, or brochures or something like that.

Right. Right. So, all right. So here's the final one, Ashley. Um, you are not allowed back in your business for a year and you've got plenty of. Funds to do what you want to mm-hmm for a year, but it can't be working. It can't be working. Mm-hmm um, what, what are you gonna do 

[00:35:27] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: for that would be hard to pull me away from my work.

Cause I do love the work. 

[00:35:30] Mike Koelzer, Host: I know it would, but you got 

[00:35:31] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: into that. Oh my gosh. We would be traveling. We would be traveling all over the world, my husband and I love to travel. So we would be taking my daughter to every corner and just soaking up the different cultures and eating cool food and going to different beaches and D.

Just different environments to learn more about what other people are like, 

[00:35:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: would you go and stay or would you pop back to the US every month or so? 

[00:35:56] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Um, if my mom was with me, we would probably not come back. 

[00:36:01] Mike Koelzer, Host: if your mom was there. 

[00:36:02] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Yeah. She, um, She's awesome. So I, if it could be my husband, my daughter and my mom, I think, I don't know if we would come back.

Don't ask that question. That's tough. yeah. 

[00:36:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: What if you could work? Wait, what, if you could work, how long would you go? Would you go for a week here and come back and work for a few weeks and then do that again? 

[00:36:21] Ashlee Hayes, PharmD: Well, the beauty of what I do is it could come with me. So, um, yeah, right. You can do it for everyone.

I love having a couple days a week where I just get to focus on the people that I serve, but also there's nothing better than having carved out time for just myself. Yeah. And, and just for my family too, but separate times, right time for myself to, to really reflect on. Self care and what I need to be the best person I can be.

Cuz I'm here for service. So I, I sh I have to be good. So I serve my clients well, but also I love spending time with my husband and my daughter and my mom and my family and my friends. I don't just say that I thrive on that. Um, so those are really important to me. Well, actually the pleasure talking to you.

Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate 

[00:37:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: it. Yeah. You're welcome. And I look forward to keeping in touch. It was.