Pharmacies as Health Hubs | Tripp Logan, PharmD, COO of ESPhA

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, hello Tripp. Hello. Thanks for joining us on the show. Yeah. Thanks Mike. Hey trip for those that haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell the listeners what's going on. Why are we talking today? 

[00:00:25] Tripp Logan, PharmD: First off, thanks for inviting me on the podcast. This is awesome. Uh, trip Logan, second generation community pharmacist in Southeast, Missouri.

1. I took my first steps in one of my dad's drug stores and have, uh, fortunately or unfortunately been involved in the business of, of community pharmacy, my whole life. I'm really involved with a lot of, a lot of different entities where a whole lot of different hats, some of my most exciting hats right now, or community pharmacy owners.

There's a lot of pressure on my colleagues and my personal business and my business partners, my dad, and we, we deal with these struggles every day. But anytime there's some adversity, there's going to be some opportunity for people. So we're hoping to seize on that and help others do the same.

They're really involved with a CPS and initiative. That's a community pharmacy enhanced services network, really involved with that from the inception. And so that's a hot topic. Plus we just launched, uh, a new, uh, startup company called the enhanced service pharmacy Alliance, um, ASFA. And we're doing a really good job of trying to deliver service oriented, community pharmacy, profitable niche market type things that pharmacies can do and, and really, um, leverage their local relationships as well.

And so working on a whole different, uh, a lot of different angles, um, also do quite a bit of community service work as well. And, um, Keeping you 

[00:01:48] Mike Koelzer, Host: busy. Yeah, for sure. 

[00:01:50] Tripp Logan, PharmD: For sure. Where are we talking from? So I was born and raised in Southeast Missouri, which is where I'm speaking to you from right now. Uh, Mississippi river Delta.

We're about two hours north of Memphis, Tennessee. You have two 

[00:02:01] Mike Koelzer, Host: pharmacies. How far are they apart? About 

[00:02:04] Tripp Logan, PharmD: 15, 17 miles. Um, that, uh, that and his business partner, one of them, in 1976, they acquired and the other in 77, we bought a merged pharmacy since then, but we still have our two flagship stores. Right. You 

[00:02:20] Mike Koelzer, Host: have original to give me a snapshot of your day.

Are you working? As a pharmacist, are you at a desk most of the day? Are you in meetings? Are you at the one pharmacy? Give me a little rundown of what your surroundings are during the day. 

[00:02:37] Tripp Logan, PharmD: I wish I had a twin because I could, I could get more done. Right? That's how that works. Typically. Uh, my office where I'm sitting right now is at LNS pharmacy in Charleston, Missouri, and I spent a lot of time in the office.

My. Uh, that network out of the office. We've got staff, pharmacists that work in the pharmacies. I do staff quite a bit. Um, but we that's typically I'm the go-to guy, uh, if somebody has a vacation or whatever at both stores at both locations. Absolutely. And then also I do a lot of, uh, a lot of work on the phone from a consulting standpoint, I'm engaged in a lot of consulting activities through our startup ASFA that I spent a lot of time working through.

And then, um, you know, just your, your day to day things. So 

[00:03:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: the days that you're not filling in, in the pharmacy, you're in your office working off your computer usually, or traveling or traveling for the new 

[00:03:34] Tripp Logan, PharmD: business. Yeah. Uh, new business. Um, I do a lot of work with NCPA, so I do some of their boot camps.

They've got enhanced service boot camps, and I've done a lot of speaking for those guys. Um, I serve in some leadership roles at the pharmacy quality Alliance. So, uh, several times a year, I'm traveling with them and working with them as well. Um, CPS, it keeps me active. I do a lot of work with CPS and do some traveling on behalf of the local and the national networks.

And then, you know, for, for our own businesses, for our new startup and for pharmacy as well, our pharmacies that we own and operate, give 

[00:04:08] Mike Koelzer, Host: the website of your startup. 

[00:04:13] Tripp Logan, PharmD: Sure. It's www.espha.net. And that stands for an enhanced service pharmacy Alliance. ESP, H a 

[00:04:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: yes. P H a. How do you like to work with your dad?

[00:04:26] Tripp Logan, PharmD: It's probably been one of the biggest pleasures of my life to be able to do it. I don't know that everybody, most people don't get the opportunity to do that nor do they know. Um, we had some struggles in the beginning because he wasn't used to having me around when I first graduated pharmacy school. It was a lot of butting heads, but yeah, we've kind of figured out what everybody's strengths and weaknesses are and we've, uh, you know, I'm in my 19th year, I guess, working with him.

And so it's been, it's been 

[00:04:50] Mike Koelzer, Host: great. Yeah. Oh, that's wonderful. That's 

[00:04:53] Tripp Logan, PharmD: wonderful. It is. It has been, everybody should 

[00:04:55] Mike Koelzer, Host: be. What's your least favorite part of your setup right now 

[00:04:58] Tripp Logan, PharmD: to see the value that's being provided by, by me, by the pharmacist I'm working with on the team, by all our staff. And we've got community health workers working in our pharmacies, we're doing some really cool things.

And then you look back and you look at the reimbursement that you're getting and you worry about the bottom line and making payroll and that your wholesaler payment, that's the part that I don't like. We have, you know, you just because you're providing a really, really solid. Product that's meaningful and valuable. doesn't necessarily mean you're being reimbursed for that product that you're delivering.

So that's the, that's the, the, you know, the yin and the yang of my staffing days is I'm seeing the wonderful things that are being done by our staff and, and getting to interact with patients and helping people work through their healthcare journey. And then on the other hand, you're looking at the end of the day and you didn't make any money.

Let's 

[00:05:43] Mike Koelzer, Host: say you made a lot of. Would you like doing 

[00:05:46] Tripp Logan, PharmD: that? Oh yeah. It's the best job ever. I would, I would, if I didn't have to do the office part and if I could just staff pharmacist and be able to do that for, in my family business, I would love it. I was a staff pharmacist for 10 years. And, 

[00:05:59] Mike Koelzer, Host: and that would be your, your thing if you could.

[00:06:03] Tripp Logan, PharmD: I mean, yeah, no, well, I've got this other part where I've just got to build things. And so it, that, that's the part that probably is missing a little bit, but, um, I, I enjoyed both sides. 

[00:06:18] Mike Koelzer, Host: There's a certain beauty in. Forgetting about the stuff on your desk and just, and just working. But the problem is, you know, it's still there, you know, you wish that you could work and while you were working, it would go away and I would really enjoy it.

Yeah. But when you know, it's building up, then you're kind of thinking, okay, it's building up. Were there holes in the NCPA and the CPEs N that you're filling. With the ASFA or did those flow nicely into this by, by having you form this 

[00:06:55] Tripp Logan, PharmD: when you're out and about? Right. So, um, again, I'm lucky enough. I get to work in the pharmacy.

I get to understand the inner workings of a pharmacy practice and how that works, but also I've had the ability to get it. Go go do things and, and network with people that most people don't get the opportunity to do. And so it's been great when you're, when you're doing that, you realize real quick that, you know, there are some things that would be really helpful or would be really it'd make life easier.

Or this is a common roadblock for pharmacies or for professionals or for whoever it is that I see all the time when I'm out there and there, I just don't see a solution for it. And so that's where we built it. And built ESPA, as we said, you know, let's, let's look at some of these things that are out there and it, can we play a role in solving forums and one of them's pharmacy profitability.

Um, we, we just rolled out, uh, a new, um, uh, we're actually launching it right now. It's a new hearing screen. Uh, project. Right? So, uh, hearing aid hearing devices were used to be prescription only audiologists only. Now FDA said that for mild to moderate hearing loss, you can, you can, um, sell hearing aids over the counter.

A lot of big boxes are doing it and they just. Stationed set out that says hearing aids, and you just got the little clip on there that you can't steal. And could you buy a couple hundred dollars hearing aids? Well, we thought, you know, pharmacies right now are doing screenings left and right blood pressure, blood glucose, they're doing screenings, depression, screenings.

Why not hearing screenings? Because you could actually self-refer and you do a hearing screening for somebody. If you can self refer to a hearing aid product that somebody could buy, that's a fraction of the cost of. What they would buy from the audiologist. Why would a pharmacy you're already set up for screenings and if it's profitable and it's cash and you need more cash front and business more now than ever.

And so, um, our team found a company that understood the product side, but they didn't understand pharmacy. And so we helped them build their marketing strategy and a training platform for, for staff. So pharmacy staff can easily do hearing screenings. And so hearing aids and. Do just-in-time ordering and so on.

So that's, that's one example of something that we've done and we've got a pipeline of, of, um, uh, vendors and of, of manufacturers and service providers that are looking for ways to get into the pharmacy space. And so my, my partners and I have, um, Gone and gone through the process where we'll vet them and see if there's something there.

And if there is something there, then we work with them to get their strategy into the market and make sure that it's a smooth transition and valuable to the pharmacy partners that we're working with. One of the things we realized is we were going out, talking to employers, talking to health systems, talking to, to, um, self-insured that you can go in all day long and talk about pharmacy services.

They're like, well, what about them? Pharmacy benefit. They're not going to contract just for services. You know, they've already got a broker, they've already got health insurance for their employees. They've already got, where does that fit? It's cumbersome because we're not, you know, big health plans. We don't have the PBM.

So we went back to the drawing board as ASFA and said, we've got to put together a benefit package. So when we go in, we can say, well, yes, here's what the health, the health plan that would be used here is the transparent PBM that would be used. And this is exactly how you would have prescription savings for your employees and all, yeah, by the way, there's this network of community pharmacies that are local, where they don't have to go mail order that your employees will be able to help manage their own conditions and have support with that locally with local providers.

Typically right now with most commercial insurance, there is an incentive to use the health plan owned pharmacy. So you look at, uh, like say your United healthcare. They own Optum. Well, our insurance is through United Healthcare for our employees. They are persuaded to use Optum. As are a lot of the other employers in the area.

So they don't use my pharmacies and the people are frustrated. Right? So say school districts, school districts have to use mail order. Well, they want to come and use the pharmacy on the corner, but theirs is a, we go into them and we would say like, to your example, pharmacy goes in and says, Hey, we want to be in there at great.

How do we do it? And I'm like, well, I don't know. You've got Optum. You, you can't, you can't use us. So we needed a package. We needed a package where you can go in and say, replace what you currently have with this. And it's going to save you money. 

[00:11:12] Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh, I see you would go into them. You'd go into this place that makes widgets, and you would say, Hey, we're a great pharmacy.

Have your employees started using us for some health stuff? And they said, well, no, we're not going to use your house stuff because we can't even use you for a pharmacy. And then you guys come and say, well, then we have to start looking at the whole package because people want a one stop thing, basically.

That's 

[00:11:36] Tripp Logan, PharmD: all right. You think of the early lessons we learned with CPS in his first, can we aggregate pharmacies around services and not just dispensing? And we were successful with that then, then what do we do with it? Well, we go out to the communities where we have relationships and we sell these services to the local employers and, and so on and on behalf of their employees and increasing productivity and lowering costs, improving health.

Everybody loves that idea, but the problem is the system. Is is essentially structured in a way that that's really hard to do 

[00:12:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: because they've already paid for that through one thing. And they're like, correct. Hey trip, we might appreciate you guys doing some weight loss and blood pressure and this, but we've already, and you'll probably do a better job, but we've already paid for it and we don't want to pay more for it.

And we can't carve out of this plan. And so we can't use you. I was thinking ASFA was almost a way to teach pharmacies how to do the hearing aids and this and that. But am I hearing from you that it's more of a health plan to 

[00:12:46] Tripp Logan, PharmD: sell? Yes, it has gone out and built the pieces that we brought on partners to that, you know, that we brought on a health plan.

We brought on a transparent PBM and a, uh, a benefit design group that we've essentially vetted and have gone out into the market. And, and back to your original point. Pharmacies are used to dispensing. And so educating them and helping hold their hand to go out and actually make that sale to the school district or to the employer.

That's a little tough. Who's going to do it? Gotcha. And so we're, we're positioning ourselves to not only have the ability to speak the pharmacy language and to bring in the opportunity, but handhold them through the process. And, you know, it's that only benefits the pharmacy, the community and CPS in, because it just makes CPS and stronger.

They're just, we couldn't find anything out there. So we're like, crap, we got to build this 

[00:13:34] Mike Koelzer, Host: ourselves. I got you. So you're saying to the pharmacy, you're saying, look, we're going to teach you. How to do these things. I'm just going to say blood pressure, weight loss, and hearing aid. We're going to teach you those and fear.

Not that your money is wasted learning these, and you're going to have to go to the widget company and be denied because we actually have the whole healthcare plan set up for you. So with their denials, we've got the answers now for. 

[00:14:02] Tripp Logan, PharmD: That's the majority of pharmacy owners right now. I want to do this. I need to understand more of how this works.

I want to engage. I know the employer is a self-insured employer over, down the road that has a hundred, a hundred employees. I just don't know what to say to them. I don't have anything to 

[00:14:18] Mike Koelzer, Host: offer them when ASFA comes in. Are you teaching or selling away that you're going to be able to give somebody heart surgery?

How is that part of the ASFA package? If you're say you're bringing one package and are you partnering with some of the bigger, you know, insurance plans or 

[00:14:36] Tripp Logan, PharmD: as far as the benefits side? Yeah, we were working. Yeah, there are three or four major health plans that have probably 70% of the overall market in the country, on the comer, in the commercial space.

And then there's another 30% of small ones that are vying for market share. And what those guys are doing is they're looking for an advantage because they want to move these big guys out there. Just like us. They're no different than us. Same thing with. Three or four PBMs that have the majority of the prescription benefit market right now.

But there are also some transparent, smaller ones that they're doing everything they can to get market share. So they're no different than independent pharmacy owners. So our pitch is a little more local. Um, most healthcare now is trending towards, you know, your, your, um, um, Teladoc, your, yeah, I was in talking to a nurse practitioner, friend of ours that we do a lot of work with locally and she said, you know, what's killing me right now is we're we're doing repeat strip test all the time.

To, uh, you know, weeks in to somebody that held their off phone up with their light, to their throat and their doctor on the other side of the phone, across the country, prescribed him an antibiotic and it wasn't actually strip. And so that's what they're dealing with. And so there's, there's a lot of pushback with that.

Not only from the provider side, but the employers, people aren't really happy when their mail order prescriptions don't come in on time when they have to use a physician. Clinic or whatever that, that is either remote or it's far away, because it was a less expensive option. And it was the, the, um, the preferred choice for the, you know, publicly traded health insurance company, where these local guys, they focus on local providers, local, you know, they, they come in with a different message.

And so we're, we're coming at it with. The health hubs are going to be the pharmacy, the community pharmacy, and your community with the support of a major health plan that gives you access to physicians locally. And if you're traveling, it gives you access to, you know, your broad network stuff that others have prescription benefits, where it's not going to force you to use mail.

Everybody gets paid the same amount, but it pays for services that these pharmacies can do locally. So then that way you can keep your. Tax dollars and your business logo, which tends to make employees happy, very concept, very new concept. We're just piloting these things now, very positive reception in the market.

We've been building this for close to a year and, um, we, we were getting a really positive response in the market, you know, as things grow and you look at, you know, my, my good friend Troy tricks that the, um, uh, Director of CPS in USA. I always use the craft beer analogy, you know, bud light, Coors light, Miller light.

That was all great for a while. And then this craft beer boom happened and all of a sudden what's going on. Well, um, all of a sudden market share started dipping for the. The big, the big breweries, but also in this craft, all of a sudden it became cool and it became local and community-based, and, and really, uh, uh, socialized that way.

Well, that's what community pharmacy needs to be. You know, we've got a similar product, but we've just got to get entrenched in our communities again and allow our communities to utilize our services because in the past what's happened is they're farmed out elsewhere. Whether that's. Mail ordered, uh, to a chain that's somehow affiliated or owned by the health plan.

You know, that that's, what's killing 

[00:17:47] Mike Koelzer, Host: us. The pharmacy is supposed to be the place for a lot of stuff and not duplicated necessarily unless you're traveling or things like that in a non non-pharmaceutical. 

[00:17:59] Tripp Logan, PharmD: Yeah, I'll give you another example. So two years ago, we ended up securing a significant amount of grant dollars to basically see if you could work flow community health workers out of a community pharmacy.

So community health workers are peer liaisons that help people navigate through the healthcare system. Historically, you'd find them in like a health system and a federally qualified health center, FQHC, or a faith organization, a nonprofit, we felt like with all the touch points that community pharmacies have, it seems like it'd be a place to do.

So. We worked with the Missouri pharmacy association, the Missouri department of health and senior services, and the CDC to test this as successfully, by the way, um, ended up having over 1400, uh, uh, home assessments in, in six months, ended up resulting in. Over 200 referrals to community health workers. We showed an out-of-pocket cost reduction of over $75 per patient per month.

That's out-of-pocket cost reduction. Um, got people, transportation ended up. It's just amazing what the pharmacy hub can be. When, when you, you, uh, Uh, use the resources appropriately. And there are also a lot of social services around, um, a lot of, a lot of opportunities that only somebody local knows about.

So if you've got a health insurer that's in Timbuktu, they don't really know what's going on in Charleston, Missouri. They don't know that you can get support from the Alzheimer's association locally or there. Right. Or there's a faith organization that has, uh, has some support for these or, or a food pantry.

They don't know any of that stuff. And so pharmacies should be the hub of that. And we've done a really good job of proving that out, and have secured several more grants. And we're working actually across the country now too, to spread this project out. And I think Tim Mitchell was one of your, uh, one of your pods.

I listen to his podcast. And so they're, they've got community health workers. They're doing great things with community health workers in their pharmacies. They really are. It's 

[00:19:53] Mike Koelzer, Host: really exciting. Who would be the right pharmacy to call you or look you up. 

[00:19:59] Tripp Logan, PharmD: That's a good question. And I don't know that I've got a really good answer other than anybody that's wanting to do something progressive and innovative because it just, we've got several different lines.

So there's not a pharmacy in the country that couldn't leverage, um, the profitability of, of hearing screenings and hearing. Th th that's something very simple and that that's, uh, you can train staff to do that. Not requiring a pharmacist requires great marketing. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's a good opportunity.

So that type of thing, anybody would be a good candidate. 

[00:20:31] Mike Koelzer, Host: So it's just one thing and you're not necessarily saying, Hey, you gotta, you're going to do all this. And you heard about 

[00:20:37] Tripp Logan, PharmD: we're a sourcing entity, right? So we, we we've vet vet, vet, vet, different entities. And so what we hope to be as the go-to like, Hey, I'm getting ready to go see a self-insured employer that has, or I'm going to go see a school district that has 200 employees.

I need to call ESPA to see what they have, or we need to do something on the front end. Like our front end is dead. We need, or we need to say we've got a really good multivitamin. That is, um, very similar to prescription drug products that were available in the past that they've been priced out of the market that people with diabetes just can't afford anymore.

And we found that we've sourced it. We've got a marketing campaign built around that, that we're going to launch. It's a really good high margin product. That's great for patients with diabetes. And so that's something else. So we want to be a clearing house for anything that pharmacies want to do.

Progressive. Yeah. We've 

[00:21:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: been talking about. Care. Do you guys dabble at all in sourcing the business side, whether it's inventory control or accounting or ordering 

[00:21:37] Tripp Logan, PharmD: and so on right now, there is a lot of business that ESSA has is, uh, they've got, uh, or we have a wholesaler relationship. And so there's a.

Got a bio plan. It's about plant management and helping pharmacies with that piece. And so that's, that's definitely, um, uh, another opportunity that's out there. Yeah. It depends on what you're talking about, with respect to the pharmacy business, because you know, there it's, it's pretty, it's pretty intricate right now.

Um, we've done everything from, um, you know, you have pharmacies that have. Um, MTM cases, comprehensive medication reviews, uh, assigned to them from a Medicare part D plan. We've helped work with them to maximize. We got some pretty good numbers on how we've helped pharmacies maximize the profitability of that, not doing the MTMs forum, but helping show them how to, how to maximize the time and maximize the dollars for those kinds of things, which are.

It's not, it's not going to keep your doors open, but if you can do it efficiently and do it well, it's a nice extra revenue. And so those are the kinds of things we focused on in the past as 

[00:22:43] Mike Koelzer, Host: well. It sounds to me like a lot of your stuff and ASFA is pretty individual. Are there some off the shelf packages, but it seems, it sounds like a lot of it is kind of on the consulting side.

And then when it would take kind of like a quote for somebody who was. To work with you. They're not all packages per se. 

[00:23:01] Tripp Logan, PharmD: Uh, so some of our packages, you know, say like a hearing device, um, program, that's a package and that wouldn't require now we do do some consulting. There are, um, there are definitely a lot of companies out there that have widgets that, um, they're trying to figure out they, they.

Um, use those widgets in other areas of healthcare and think it may be a good plate. Pharmacy may be a good market for them. We have, we definitely have had contracts for that. And one of my favorite ones was several years ago before we launched, but we were consultants with, uh, a group and, you know, it was, it had some nationally recognized names.

Um, um, guys from huge Silicon valley. Tech investors and Harvard university. And I mean, these guys were the real deal. And so they were going out and they were trying to figure out how to get into the pharmacy market, got us to do market assessments and really see what, what a go to market approach would be.

And we went back to him after three months, they were like, guys, this market's saturated. There's just, we, we don't see a path forward until they shut down the. Really. So, you know, we feel like we didn't make a ton of money on that project and we could have been a whole lot, could have been a whole lot longer.

And we feel like we say that we wish we had what we saved, but you know, that there's value to that. And so that's, that's something else that we have done and continue to do. When, when that's 

[00:24:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: available, the hearing and example your revenue source would be from, from the hearing aid company. Correct. Um, somebody 

[00:24:21] Tripp Logan, PharmD: who's going to sign on to do hearing screenings with us.

Yeah, we were not charging them for the program. You know, we'll write our, uh, we, when, when they're selling a lot of hearing devices, you know, we ourselves and our business have been monthly feet to death sometimes to no benefit. And so we're, we're trying to steer as far away on the episodic charging pharmacies, anything for what we're doing, unless they're seeing benefit from it.

[00:24:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: Trip what. Estimate right now. And I know you can include all the time that your daydream about this when you're driving on the road and things, but what would you estimate right now? How many people are going into ASFA per week? In other words, are there dedicated employees just for, as far as how many and how many hours 

[00:25:10] Tripp Logan, PharmD: altogether?

We've got four investors, four partners, and we're, you know, we've all got essentially day jobs, you know, it's, it's it's us. And then, um, also we've got. Uh, three full-time employees and we've got an analyst. We have an account person and a, and a, um, uh, account management person. And then we've got, uh, essentially, uh, uh, another gentleman that's an MBA in our office that does a lot of the training and the project management.

And then we've got full-time sales, um, uh, guy as well and 10 99 salespeople. So we're. We launched and we're serious besides 

[00:25:50] Mike Koelzer, Host: the guys, like you, it's always on your mind and your thinking and kind of running it. You've got maybe the equivalent of about eight full-time people or so running the business, I would 

[00:26:00] Tripp Logan, PharmD: say close.

Yeah. I'd say that's probably a good estimate for the trip. What would 

[00:26:03] Mike Koelzer, Host: Is your dream like out here five years or 10 years or 15 years? What would you like to be. Doing, would you still like to have your hands in pharmacy? 

[00:26:14] Tripp Logan, PharmD: Yeah. So my first dream would be that this pharmacy I'm sitting in is still open and operational, uh, that, you know, in today's market, that's, that's always questionable.

Uh, You know, things are rough. Things are rough. You're, it's, it's tough. And so that would be great. You know, I've got three kids and two nephews, and if any of them wanted to get into this business, I would hope that they would have the opportunity to be able to do what I've done. Um, so that's, that's one.

[00:26:40] Mike Koelzer, Host: Does that include both pharmacies that dream. 

[00:26:43] Tripp Logan, PharmD: Actually more, right. I mean, I, I think we're in this world now where, um, we at one small pharmacy in a small community just is not going to be viable anymore. You're going to see the average pharmacy owner go from having 1.5 or whatever, the national average to 3.5.

I just think that that's the natural progression of how this thing's going to go. You need more, more to spread out your processes, uh, you know, beyond that, um, I would love to see community pharmacies and community pharmacists have more revenue streams other than dispensing sustainable. You know, 50, 50, 50% of my revenue is from dispensing products.

50% is from other revenue streams like per member, per month management or, um, services that I'm offering that people pay cash for or services that I'm offering, that I can actually bill, uh, a third party for, um, That's what our healthcare system needs. That's what actually, I believe in my heart will reduce costs overall.

And, um, it'll also keep, uh, keep a lot, a lot of dollars local in these communities that really need it and keep that service right. They're oriented in the community where the patients are. So that's, you know, in, in five years, if those things are going on, then you know, personally I'm successful.

Um, what we've been doing would not be in vain. You know, it wouldn't have been wasted. It would still be here. And, uh, I think that it would just open up the door for a lot more opportunity. Will there 

[00:28:05] Mike Koelzer, Host: ever be a time when you would say it's okay if you don't see personally any patients, I mean, in the pharmacy, let's say somebody said trip, you're working here or there, but you're never going to be talking to another customer slash patient.

You're going to be working with the vendors and maybe doing some consulting and doing this, but you're never down to the actual patient level. Right. Would that be a negative thing or a positive thing for you personally? I think 

[00:28:35] Tripp Logan, PharmD: that'd be negative. Really? It would be negative. Yeah, I think so. I mean, there's, there's a certain amount of grounding that you get knowing that you, uh, you've got no, not only some accountability with, with people, but you also credibility.

If you're not doing that, how are you going to consult? How are you going to know what's best if you have one? People in the eyes and not that you've got to do it all the time, but you know, I'm still, I'm still the guy on call on weekends. Um, I'm still working Saturdays. Uh, those, those are some of the most rewarding days.

And I think without that you lose your drive. Maybe, maybe your perspective, a little Avary tower thing, which, which I detest. And so. Um, I think that grounding is what's the most important piece size. I'd say if something had to let go, that would probably be the last of all of them, just because I think that's the driving factor.

Then you see what the system needs as well. And what people need, 

[00:29:32] Mike Koelzer, Host: how much would be enough of that for. Like if I said, well, you can either do like this, which would be a huge amount or this how much would be too small of that per week or per 

[00:29:42] Tripp Logan, PharmD: month. I kind of like my gig now I'm on a couple Saturdays a month and on call and cover shifts for lunch and, and people when people are sick and out emergencies, um, I like 

[00:29:53] Mike Koelzer, Host: that you're on maybe six to eight hours a week or something like that on average, 

[00:29:57] Tripp Logan, PharmD: probably that's about right.

Maybe even less than that. A day, 

[00:30:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: a weak kind of thing. Let's say a pharmacy did not exist. Well, number one, you, you know, you and your dad weren't in this and you could not be in the health field. What path do you think you would have taken, going into? 

[00:30:12] Tripp Logan, PharmD: College. When I got out of high school, my intent was not to go to pharmacy school.

I was a chemistry and criminal justice double major. I had done, uh, I had family in the DC Metro area. I loved Washington DC. I'd done a tour of the J Edgar Hoover FBI building. Um, I just felt like that was what I wanted to do. I thought that was, would be so cool to be able to go and work there. And so I was.

Chemistry, um, criminal justice and kind of thinking, you know, forensics, uh, analyst, investigator, like that kind of thing was really intriguing to me. And I'd always kind of thought about a law school as well. So I thought that that whole path was what I was going to do. And so in doing my undergrad, one of my criminal justice professors, uh, she was, uh, uh, I, um, uh, a former US attorney and her husband was an FBI agent.

So I got pretty close with them. He, uh, she said at one point her husband had, he, they, she was talking about me dinner or whatever. And he said, you know, right now the FBI is really interested in accountants and pharmacists because we got a lot going on with prescription drugs and you know, it, it it's, it's, uh, it'd be a good market.

So she came in and told me, I was like, oh my dad's a pharmacist. I'll take a peek at it. So I went, took the peak at real fast, ended up getting an interview and got into pharmacy school. You are late on the waiting list. And I took the spot. I was like, man, all right, here I am in pharmacy school. Still never planning on moving to Charleston, Missouri and working in the family business.

And I'd been there for about three weeks. Then my dad caught me on a Friday and he's like, Hey, uh, How's your week. Cause good, good. He's like, well, I've got some talk to you about, and he said, I know you're not planning on coming back, but my partner and I have had some decisions we need to make. And if you're coming back, but you don't have to, and we're not forcing you to, but we're going to go one way.

And if you're not, we're going to go a different way. I was like, well, how long have I decided? He said Monday, And so I was like, well, crap. So I thought about it and I hung out with my friends and I called him Sunday night and I was like, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll do it. I'll come back out. You know, I had a really good life growing up and I enjoyed the community and I'd been away long enough.

I thought, you know, I can think of a whole lot worse things and moving back to Charleston, Missouri, and doing what my dad did. Right. That's ended up being what I did and that's, that's how I ended up. Oh, that's great. 

[00:32:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: That's great. My, uh, my story about the FBI building, this was a. Hoover, right? That's the FBI.

This was about, um, shoot 20 years ago. And I went to, I think it was the American pharmacy association. They had a couple of newscasters who had gone into consulting. And so they brought like, I don't know, eight pharmacists there. And. Teach us to their building, to the APA J I think to teach us about how to be on the news and things like that, you know, more like that.

So I remember I had, I had some time and so I was walking around and this is when boy, whatever the day was, it was right when the phones came out, like I had maybe the trio or something like that. And so I'm walking by the FBI and I see these. Things that rise up or something when the cars can go through, I forget if they were pylons or like a whole metal thing or something.

And so I'm taking pictures of it. And before I know it, and these two, these two security guards come up and no pictures and it was right during. Technology time where they said, we have to take your film. And I said, why don't I? I don't have any, I don't have any film camera, you know, it's an electric camera or whatever, and a phone.

And so I said, I'll delete them right now. So. I'm sure they had no idea what the hell I was doing. I'm pushing bonds. I really was deleting them, but it was, it reminded me of just being in that crossover at technology where they can never, they can no longer say give me that film. It's all right. So now I got, I don't know, it reminds me of that story about that.

Uh, one guy that was on the submarine or something, he has taken pictures. Taking pictures. And he got thrown in the slammer. He was in the Navy, he got thrown in the slammer for taking pictures of private things or something like that. So 

[00:34:15] Tripp Logan, PharmD: it's a good thing that, what was that word? DTE? Cause they could, uh, they could price snagged and pass that barricade.

[00:34:23] Mike Koelzer, Host: And if our paths would have crossed differently in life, it might've been, you interrogating a pharmacy 

[00:34:29] Tripp Logan, PharmD: pharmacy person or something that would have been different. Well 

[00:34:32] Mike Koelzer, Host: trip, thank you for your time. And this has been a real pleasure digging into this information, and it's great because you mentioned two Mitchell's podcast and it's really cool to see this from different angles and to see the cool things that my comrades are, 

[00:34:48] Tripp Logan, PharmD: are up to Mike.

I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed this and appreciate being invited and, uh, wish you best of luck and getting your podcast disseminated. And I'll do my best to share with my friends as well, because honestly, I wasn't really familiar with it. And then Tim told me about it. So I started listening to it.

Now I'm a regular listener. So, uh, so yeah, you, you, uh, you recruited one here through 

[00:35:10] Mike Koelzer, Host: 10. That's kind. I appreciate that. We talk about the difficult times and pharmacy and our pharmacy is in the same boat of not knowing what our future is. And so I was thinking of it. I most enjoyed doing it, and I've always enjoyed it. I don't know if the receiver of this has always enjoyed it, but I've always enjoyed talking to someone and just firing way too many questions at them.

And I thought, how can I combine that? And so I thought, well, I'll do a podcast because I think. It Pesters people enough, but it does give me a chance to meet people, should the time ever come where the pharmacy may not be there, that I've deepened my connections throughout the U S with people and so on.

So I appreciate everybody. That's given me a little trust and I appreciate your listening. Thank you. Trip. I'll be watching and I wish you guys all the best. Yep. Same 

[00:35:59] Tripp Logan, PharmD: to you. Same to you. Appreciate it.