May 4, 2020

Paperless Medication Guides | Richard Waithe, PharmD, VUCA Health President

Paperless Medication Guides | Richard Waithe, PharmD, VUCA Health President
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Richard Waithe, PharmD, is the president of VUCA Health. VUCA Health has created the largest and most robust medication video library in the world to address low health literacy.

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Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: Hello, Richard, 

[00:00:16] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Mike, thanks for having me on here. I really appreciate it. 

[00:00:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: I was like your fifth guest on your podcast. We 

[00:00:21] Richard Waithe, PharmD: were, it was early for me and I appreciate you for that. I was just getting started. So you were like 

[00:00:25] Mike Koelzer, Host: the first or second on mine and it was just on my phone and I think halfway through, I dumped half of it.

So I actually yeah. Come on. End of the podcast. And I told my listeners, I said, I apologize. That's all we got, but it was too good to throw it away. So 

[00:00:44] Richard Waithe, PharmD: how are you doing? I'm doing really well. I'm doing really well living the quarantine life right now. Um, yeah, I've only left the house to do some grocery shopping twice, maybe in the last six weeks.

So it's been, uh, it's been interesting, just kind of hunker down at home. 

[00:00:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: So we had some guy about a week ago, I was in the pharmacy and he said he had not been out for like. Three weeks or something. He was actually going around like a new puppy. I mean , he was going up to everybody in the pharmacy. He could to, uh, say hello and because he was so happy to get outta the 

[00:01:17] Richard Waithe, PharmD: house.

Yeah. yeah. It's, it's definitely, you know, it's, it's like we're living in like a weird Twilight zone. I mean, even when I went to the grocery store, I think I had, I think it was about three weeks ago. It was just the particular grocery store I went to was just so dead and I live in Miami. So I live very busy.

Area. Yeah. And like, just to see, like it, one, it was just completely dead and everyone was wearing a mask and it was just like, man, this is just a weird, you know, kind of environment right now. Yeah. 

[00:01:44] Mike Koelzer, Host: The first week or so it happened, I physically almost shook my head a couple times. You couldn't believe it, you know, you couldn't believe it was happening.

Mm-hmm humans adapt, I guess it seems kind. 

[00:01:55] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Normal now yeah, I mean, with everything we always adapt. So that's one thing that's great about humans, the human species is that our nature is to always adapt. Um, and luckily we have, uh, an ability to communicate and, uh, you know, animals, you know, they don't have that ability to communicate and adapt when things happen.

It happens, it takes evolution to like, figure that out. But for us, yeah, it's, it's an instant adaptation cuz we're able to communicate. So I mean, you know, from a, from a holistic point of view, I mean we're yeah. We're definitely not in a good spot. for 

[00:02:23] Mike Koelzer, Host: those that don't. Know you yet online. Tell us who you are and tell us why we're talking 

[00:02:30] Richard Waithe, PharmD: today.

Yes. Uh, so for those that don't know me, my name is Richard wa uh, I'm a pharmacist with a, uh, primarily a background at community pharmacy. I went to school at the University of Florida and, um, primarily had a background in, uh, again, like working at some of the large retailers like target. Um, CVS Publix really started to see.

Patient education was a passion of mine, uh, and really tried to focus on, you know, how can I work with technology and work with making sure patients are understanding a lot about their medications and, um, VUCA health for me was a, uh, was an interesting story because I, I was actually an intern with the company.

Uh, when I was in pharmacy school, helping them create some of the content. And then, uh, when I graduated and went off on my own, uh, I started like an MTM company. I started to get into digital media production with the podcast, with arch radio and things like that. And then kind of came back full circle where the founders, uh, asked me about a couple years ago to come back and, um, run the company as president.

So, um, that's kind of where. Kind of brought us here today. Um, and VUCA health. What we do is, uh, we, we primarily focus on creating medication, education, content, uh, we create medication, education videos, but one of the ways that we, um, get those videos in front of patients is by putting a QR code, uh, on the, uh, labels, uh, working with community pharmacies, um, mostly independent pharmacies, the result of a new partnership that we engaged in with pioneer.

RX now every single pharmacy that's using pioneer will have a QR code on their receipt label. Um, whereas with most other independent pharmacies, it's, it's, it's up to the pharmacy's choice if they want to, uh, subscribe to the solution or not. But with pioneer now it's pioneers created it where it's now standard for all of their, um, community pharmacy or all of their independent pharmacies.

And, um, it's a really exciting time. How did you 

[00:04:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: get your first. Internship with VUCA health. Did you search that out or what? 

[00:04:13] Richard Waithe, PharmD: No, actually, uh, my beginnings with VUCA is actually just a Testament to like my, my always ability to say yes to everything. Yeah. And I feel like in most of what I do and all the opportunities, I always say yes to things.

If, if I can. Either afford it or I can, I can have the time to go do it or take an opportunity to say yes, the founders actually sent an email out to our entire campus. Um, for, for students basically looking for students to help create the content. Um, at the time this was back in 2000, like 12, 13 ish around there.

And I was, I saw the email, it was literally out of a campus that had maybe 400 students. I think I was one of four students that actually replied and said, yes, I'll do that. Like, that sounds good. And that was kind of how so I wasn't searching it out. Um, but the, the, the, one of the biggest reasons I said yes, also was because as a student, they were like, Uh, the opportunity was you can write scripts for patients about medications and we'll pay you to work from home.

And I was like, I can do that on my own. Like on my own time, while I'm in pharmacy school, I'm a broke student, you know, let's definitely do this. So , that was kind of the origin there. You were getting paid for it. Yeah. Yeah. Luckily. 

[00:05:19] Mike Koelzer, Host: Wow. That's cool. Did you pick up some cool experiences there as far as what brought you into the RX radio?

So then did you learn about stuff or did you already have that background with audio visual, et 

[00:05:37] Richard Waithe, PharmD: cetera? So at the time the company was so new, I don't know if I fully grasped what they were all gonna be doing. Um, and we did not get exposed to any other parts of the business or any other parts of technology as a student, all we knew was how to create these scripts.

So I actually did not. I did not have a founda. And even before that, I didn't really have a foundation in media production. Um, my friend that helped me with getting to where I am today is Google. Um, I literally started Googling everything. I started just researching Google, YouTube, um, watching videos, uh, if I ever wanted to learn about how to make my own graphics without.

Knowing or a website without knowing how to code. I would just go to Google and try to search for that. So, um, I didn't, unfortunately I didn't get a lot of exposure, uh, when I was a student with VUCA at the time, because I was just creating those medication education scripts, but it wasn't until a couple years after I graduated that I realized.

Being the type of person I am. I feel like I'm great at communication, especially in person. Like how do I scale this? How do I start to communicate with more people, um, and start to build my brand that way. And that's kind of where the digital media production side started kind of coming out of it coming 

[00:06:44] Mike Koelzer, Host: out of me.

So today we're talking about these QR codes. I now know what QR means. Quick response, quick response. Yeah. Every time I would come up to a QR code in the past, it was. Totally opposite of quick response, because I hadn't used enough of 'em. I didn't know what program I needed to use. And I thought, oh crap, I'm just gonna type the web link.

That's typically down on the bottom of those things, but your stuff now really lends itself well to QR codes, because if you had every medicine with a. Different websites, you'd start to get into some kind of funky websites that people would have to type in instead of using. Camera, you know, I mean, there'd be hundreds and then different strengths and different.

Maybe not so much the strengths, but different dosage formulations and things like that. So that QR code must really 

[00:07:47] Richard Waithe, PharmD: help. The interesting thing about the QR code is if you think about the history of it, it was almost before its time. When you think about a QR code, because what happened. Exactly the QR code was essentially invented.

Um, but there wasn't an easy way to read it. So what people normally had to do was they had to download a QR code reader as an app. Yes. So there's, there's a lot of friction there and a lot of steps that you had to do to be able to understand how to even use it. Right. Now what happened a couple years ago, Apple and Google did us an extremely huge favor, especially for our business where they now have embedded inside of the camera for, um, most of us, every single apple product, like a, whether it's an iPhone, an iPad, like a tablet.

Those cameras all have a QR code reader built in. So all you have to do is open your camera and hover it over. Yeah. Whereas prior to that, uh, you had to download that app. The problem is that even today, a lot of people still don't know how easy it is to access a QR code. Right. Um, and apple it's almost like they did it in secret.

Like it, Apple didn't really tell anyone that. And put a QR code reader in every camera. Um, but it's interesting cuz other cultures, like if you look at Asian cultures, like Q codes are everywhere really, um, for everything and um, we're, we're really behind on it, but it's also a function. Uh, when it was created, people didn't really know how to use it.

And they just automatically started assuming that that's just not something they're gonna deal with. And then when Apple created the, uh, you know, embedded it in all of the cameras, they never told anyone. And there's never been like a huge marketing push to say, like, let's start using QR codes more often now.

So it's, uh, right. It's definitely been interesting. I've 

[00:09:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: got an Android and I didn't know what it I'm like, where's my app. And then even with my team, when I say, well, here's how you do it, you put your camera over it and they all wanna take a picture. I'm like, no, you just, you literally hover your camera over it and you don't touch anything.

And, and it comes up some 

[00:09:37] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Androids though. And depending on the Android phone, you have, you have to have, uh, I think either the Google lens or the Google camera, if not with Android phones, you do have to have a, uh, uh, an actual QR code reader. So I see, and that's a function of Android having like. Multiple like operating systems, I think.

Um, so it just depends on which one you have, but for, for apple, it's every single, um, device that has a camera, 

[00:09:59] Mike Koelzer, Host: because there is someone on our team that has an Android. And I bet that's a case where they're not using the Google camera. Yeah, exactly. Or don't have that downloaded. Exactly. Oh, that's really interesting.

One of the bigger, more popular computer firms says, we're putting this on. every receipt. 

[00:10:21] Richard Waithe, PharmD: One thing I think that's really interesting to think about too is, um, for a while now, a lot of people will say, well, you know, most of my patients are above 50 and they don't have, they don't have smartphones and I'm, and I'm thinking myself, like, first of all, I FaceTime with my 90 year old.

Grandmother. Right. so like, so I'm not sure how that makes sense, but, but then, you know, that's personal, you know, anecdotes and things like that. But then I went and looked at some data and there's over. I wanna say it's over 50% or almost 60% of people above 65 own a smartphone or an iPad or a tablet.

Yeah. Um, it starts to go, it actually goes up to like 70 something. percent When you look at at least a tablet at home. So, um, I think there's a misconception now with how, uh, technology's being utilized. I think you're right. And I think we're underestimating, you know, the amount, the population of people above 65 or underestimated the things that they're actually doing with technology.

Um, and then this isn't extremely complicated. You just have to know how to open your camera. Yeah. You know, so, uh, right. So, so it's, it's been, it's been great, um, in terms of realizing that. This is something that we need now. Um, every patient that has access to a smart device or internet should have access to this.

Um, so we're excited to, for that partnership to really start to get, um, our goal is to obviously get to every pharmacy in the country. Um, and, and this is really a great step in that direction. 

[00:11:41] Mike Koelzer, Host: I wonder if that 

population, if even the computer skipped some of them. In other words, if some of them went from.

Like my mother-in-law, I mean, she never would've had a computer and she failed miserably on a tablet using Facebook. 

[00:11:55] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Yeah. 

[00:11:55] Mike Koelzer, Host: But at least we tried, we never would've tried her with a, you know, a desktop or a laptop computer or something like that. And now people are saying, Hey, I'll try a phone with my mom or dad or someone more than they would even say, I'm gonna try.

Computer or a laptop 

[00:12:11] Richard Waithe, PharmD: maybe. And, you know, what I think is actually gonna be interesting one day. Um, we're in the beginning stages of it now, but I think there's some people that might jump to a voice device over a potential smart you're absolutely right. Uh, device, a smartphone or something like that because.

A voice device. Yeah. Like an Alexa is just so easy to use, but I, I think you're right. I think you have a really great point. The, the way that the, uh, I think, you know, this is credit to Steve jobs back in the day. I mean, the way that he created such a device, that's so easy to use in the iPhone. Uh, it just makes complete sense that, uh, the average person, if they're, if they're being introduced to technology, it's better to hand them an iPhone than to hand them.

Um, any sort of PC or Mac, computer. Uh, because it's gonna be much easier for them to use. And the way that things work now is they can probably do everything that they need to do on their smartphone that they would've needed to do on a computer. Anyway, Yeah. 

[00:13:02] Mike Koelzer, Host: Now that voice is really interesting because if you think of playing 20 questions, how narrow you can get down stuff with just 12 questions or something, but you think about if you had Alexa sitting there.

And you ask some, let's say elderly person or whomever. Hey, how are you feeling today? Oh, not so well, all right, well now it goes down this direction. Why what's, you know, what's this. And so you're having this conversation and within seven or eight questions, you might have almost been able to diagnose how they're doing and, and why that day.

And that's gonna be really something when that starts coming. And 

[00:13:42] Richard Waithe, PharmD: what you're gonna start seeing too, is. This is already something in the works with different companies, but soon patients are gonna be able to refill their prescriptions using Alexa. They're gonna be able to say, Hey, Alexa, please refill my inhaler or that inhaler I got last month.

And that's gonna be something that's gonna be connected through the back end. So that's probably gonna happen in the next couple years. Um, so it's, it's definitely really fun to see where technology's going and. I'm glad we can kind of, I'm glad the QR code is probably an introduction to a lot of this, uh, these new technologies to patients, um, with kind of digital patient education.

[00:14:14] Mike Koelzer, Host: Just thinking about the voice still. I still know a lot of people have never been to a podcast. They don't know what a podcast is. Android only has like. 2% of the podcast market right now, every week when I put a podcast out, I put a little ad out that just says to listen to this, just say, Hey Alexa, Hey, Google play.

And then the name of my podcast, and the last episode comes up. I don't know what kind of response that gets, but I know some people still don't know how to, how to get into a podcast or you know where to go 

[00:14:44] Richard Waithe, PharmD: for that. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting to think, you know, there's people that I know. I just started listening to RX radio.

Um, you know, the podcast I ran this year and they told me, well, I just started listening this year. And then they, and like soon after, like, yeah, it's my first podcast I've ever listened to. Amazing. And I'm just like, wow, it's crazy that, you know, you're, and this person's probably a, a, you know, in their twenties, you know?

Yeah. And they're just now starting to listen to podcasts. I mean, it's, it's, it's definitely interesting, but it's growing we're actually, I think we're seeing an interesting time now where. Podcasts had this huge kind of like upswinging uptake, but right. A lot of it was, uh, a lot of listenership happens when they're, when these people are commuting.

Yeah. So now with the, uh, with the pandemic, obviously with less commuting now, people are listening less. So, um, it's, it's, it's definitely in a weird place now. And, um, I'm wanting to see how it's gonna rebound. 

[00:15:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: I've seen those numbers drop. Have you seen some of that on your episodes? 

[00:15:39] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Yes, I have. It's pretty interesting.

Yeah, it's global, like almost, uh, If you look at like a lot of reporting with like global podcasts, I mean, it's, it's globally down. 

[00:15:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: So I was telling my wife, I said, ah, this sucks. I said, she's like, it's the quarantine, you know? Yeah. And they're out of their routine. Exactly. Dumb this down a little bit, because I don't wanna hop over some of the listeners to inform the listeners.

On exactly what we're talking about 

[00:16:04] Richard Waithe, PharmD: here. Yeah. So I can definitely, uh, go through kind of a little bit of the, uh, basics of it, how it works. Yeah. Uh, the, the two things that are, that are great about this, uh, that great about this solution is that one, they get a short two minute video about their prescription.

I see. And we have an extensive library that covers about 90% of medications dispensed in a pharmacy. So if a patient's picking up Merool. We have a video from a Tolo Excel. If they're picking up a pro air, we have a video specifically for pro air. So, uh, that QR code gives 'em access to these, to these videos that kind of tell them what that medication is used for and how to use it properly, um, side effects to expect.

And, um, they also have administration videos to help people with like, injecting like a Humira, for example. Um, and the videos are short. They're about two minutes long. Uh, they're written at a fifth grade reading level and the content's all created by pharmacists. So there's a minimum of two pharmacists that review every script, uh, that gets created.

And it would, which is great because it's, it's not intended to replace counseling and then legally it cannot replace counseling, but it's men, it's, it's intended to be a, uh, uh, mimic the conversation that someone would have if they have a quick question about their medication. So it really should provide for more fruitful conversations with, um, with patients and their healthcare providers.

The other really cool thing about this solution is that, um, there is all the information that patients normally get on paper, whether that be the patient ed sheets or the med guides, all that information, they normally get on paper, they can actually now get digitally through that QR code. And what we've done is we've reached out to 49 different boards of pharmacies to ensure and confirm that this is something that pharmacies can.

Offer as an alternative. So, uh, we've initiated a going green campaign. Um, some like five years ago, basically, um, advocating for pharmacies to stop wasting so much paper, um, and, and provide this digitally. So we have some pharmacies that are reporting that they've, they've virtually gone paperless.

Um, with all their patients, getting their PA their, um, uh, medication guides and the patient ed sheets through that QR code. Uh, now pharmacies can't make this, um, all or nothing. The patient still has to have the option of receiving paper. Gotcha. Um, but, uh, but most patients throw that stuff away. Um, it, because they've either been on the medication for so long or just, it looks too like it's too much for them to read, which is why the videos are great.

Um, a lot of times. Um, and pharmacies are saving time, um, by not having to deal with all of the finding the paper, folding it, putting it in the bag. Um, and then, uh, HIPAA mix ups happen, you know? Yeah. Being a pharmacist myself, I know that I'm trying to make things really efficient. I'll have, I'll have verified 10 prescriptions and now I have 10 things laid out.

I need to make sure the right paper goes in the right bag. One that takes time. And two, sometimes the wrong paper ends up in the wrong bag. That's it. It's a, it's an unfortunate reality that, um, going paperless can, can actually, um, prevent. So, um, a lot of great benefits to this solution. Yeah. What's interesting about pioneers is they're initiating this on every single, uh, receipt for the customers.

Traditionally, that QR code goes, uh, directly on the bottle. What I would encourage if there is a pioneer, uh, pharmacy that's listening right now, and you're getting this on your receipts, I would reach out to your account manager to ask, to get that QR code on the bottle, um, because it is possible to get there and I highly recommend it.

It's how we normally operate. Um, having that QR code on the bottle keeps it so keeps it close to the medication and, and the QR codes. What's really great about them is their NDC. So we know exactly the NDC that the patient's getting, and that's why it allows us to populate a lot of the things that are required by, um, whether that be the state board of pharmacy, the FDA.

Um, one other feature that I'll, that I'll talk about too, is people can actually see the images, um, of their. Of the, uh, medications, 

[00:19:44] Mike Koelzer, Host: The QR code can get pretty small. Right? I mean, you could have that like a quarter inch by a quarter inch and still be read 

[00:19:49] Richard Waithe, PharmD: by a phone. Yeah. Thir 13, 13 millimeters is like what we tell all our pharmacy management system partners.

Uh, that's how small it can be, which is usually the size of like an average thumbnail. And that 

[00:19:59] Mike Koelzer, Host: would go on the bottles somewhere in the corner or something like that. If you wanted to get it per bottle. That's 

[00:20:05] Richard Waithe, PharmD: correct. Yep. Yeah. The bigger, the better, obviously. Um, but you know, you have states like California, Which is really interesting because, uh, California has labeling requirements that have like the font on the label that says the medication name has to be a specific size.

Oh. And they have to have certain things on their label that actually sometimes require an impossibility to get a QR, a, a functional QR code on that label. So, um, so sometimes there are challenges that we have to kind of, uh, try to figure. Um, but yeah, usually it goes right on the bottle and obviously the bigger the QR code is the better it is to respond to a QR code reader.

Gotcha. Um, so the smaller codes, it's a little bit difficult to, like, you have to like to play with a little bit, like in terms of how close you might have your phone, making sure your phone is focused. The camera's focused on the QR code, larger QR codes. You know, it's, it's much more easier to pick up, so the larger, the better, but, uh, we do recommend, uh, a minimum size of 13 millimeters being the 

[00:20:58] Mike Koelzer, Host: business.

Of pharmacy podcasts. Let's talk about money. 

[00:21:03] Richard Waithe, PharmD: How's that working the way our business model works? This is, this is in general. Yeah. Um, this is no matter the type of customer we have. Uh, we don't, we don't get funding and we don't, we don't have any sort of backing from pharma. And a lot of times, uh, a lot of times companies that provide patient education have like.

Uh, pharma that sponsors and they get sponsorships and things like that. We don't have that sort of business model. Um, primarily we, we, we license the content directly to, um, the healthcare providers. Um, so whether that's a health system, whether that's a specialty pharmacy, a health plan, which are, we have customers that are health plans, um, whether that's a community pharmacy, our business model usually works by, um, licensing the content directly to, uh, that healthcare provider 

[00:21:45] Mike Koelzer, Host: licensing, meaning you've got a.

An agreement, a business agreement with them, they're buying the access to that. 

[00:21:52] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Yeah. And they would pay, uh, what's usually a yearly subscription fee to that. Um, so they would pay us directly to subscribe to the content. So I say, we say subscribe, because you're getting, it's almost like Netflix, where we're giving you all this content, um, that you can now use and, and provide to your patients.

And all this content is ad free. So even though we have medication specific videos and content. Uh, it's not, it's not an ad for some company. Uh, these are all independently created by clinicians, by pharmacists, um, that only get the information directly from the FDA and NIH. 

[00:22:24] Mike Koelzer, Host: And you promote that somewhere.

Probably you say we're not gonna be bought. We're gonna be very unbiased. material and so 

[00:22:34] Richard Waithe, PharmD: on, you know, we don't boast about it, which obviously that is a marketing technique, but it's not something that we have, you know, clearly laid out on our website. Um, but just from, from a core, you know, from our integrity standpoint as a business, it's not to say we won't work with companies like pharma manufacturers or anyone that is pushing something that we might have a video about, but we just, we just wanna be extremely clear.

The content that we create is, is unbiased and is evidence based, um, uh, based on FDA approved package labeling. Uh, so it's nothing like that, and we never are. Uh, you know, paid specifically to say something in our content, in our video content. Um, our goal is just to educate those patients as best as we can.

[00:23:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: You would work with a company somehow that's not out of the question. 

[00:23:20] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Definitely not. No. Uh, so we would work with any company. Uh, it, it just becomes in terms of. Depending on. If someone wants us to create a video for them, we'll create a video and hand you the video. Gotcha. But in terms of a, of a relationship where we're licensing content to a healthcare provider, uh, and then there's, they're now showing that to their patients, that content is going to be, uh, evidence based content unbiased.

Um, not influenced by any outside company or organization, uh, in terms of what information their patients are getting. 

[00:23:49] Mike Koelzer, Host: Is that one of the reasons why you would not promote it because you don't want to paint yourself into a corner. 

[00:23:54] Richard Waithe, PharmD: When we create content, we're creating new content, we're creating about 50 to 60 videos every quarter.

Is there some, you know, drug rep that may reach out and say, Hey, you know, we have this launching, can you please do a video? What we'll do then is we'll put it in our content queue and we'll have our content team evaluated. If that is going to be first line therapy or if it's new in its class. We might do that video and it has nothing to do.

Like I could hate that rep or I could love that rep it has nothing to do with my relationship with that rep, but do we need to get information to patients about that medication? That's the concern that we have as a content creator. So no matter who is telling us, we will still consider doing that video.

Now, if the drug rep said, Hey, please make sure to mention this, or don't mention this. We don't listen to things like that. Your 

[00:24:38] Mike Koelzer, Host: The Bible of this is really the patient information guide, which is exactly why we're all hoping the FDA isn't bought out. Yeah. You know, but you're using very unbiased source material to get across what you need to get across.

Exactly. 

[00:24:53] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Exactly. Gotcha. Now there's kind of two ways where we, we. Our revenue stream. Yeah. The organization that is, that is utilizing the service or the solution. Yeah. They may upfront cover all the costs and then. On the other end of it, they could either then charge their pharmacies, which in pioneer, this is not the case because, uh, this is now, um, offered to pioneer pharmacies at no extra cost to them.

So they could either charge the pharmacies or they don't charge the pharmacies and just completely realize that this is a value add. Gotcha. Uh, and use it as a marketing tool. Let's say, to say, look, we have this, it's no extra cost to you. Things like that. Now what's interesting about that is some of our other types of customers.

They don't see a direct ROI, like a community pharmacy might. Um, they might not see that, uh, they can immediately save paper and to, or like an independent pharmacy, cuz sometimes we just licensed the video content. And what we say is like, look, yes, you have to pay for this upfront. But you having these, this video content is gonna help you build your brand with your patients better or it's gonna help your patients become more adherent.

So what pioneer might see or someone like pioneer might see that a pharmacy. Uh, never switch away from their pharmacy management system because right. Uh, that they, that means they might have to start paying for meds. Um, every month. Yeah. So sure. So, there's a bit of a, um, there's a bit of a branding benefit there, a marketing benefit.

Yeah. Um, that, that they're able to see, but at the end of the day, it's either, either the organization that we license with that license, our, our content or the, uh, pharmacy themselves will cover the cost, uh, uh, from a yearly licensing perspective. And there's 

[00:26:29] Mike Koelzer, Host: some pharmacies that they can go directly to you.

Yes. 

[00:26:32] Richard Waithe, PharmD: So that's normally how, how, uh, our business model works. We work, even though we're integrated with almost all of the major pharmacy management systems. Uh, oh, I see. It's what we like, we work with Liberty. We work with, um, RX exterior compute, micro merchants, um, PX. Like we work with all of the major, um, uh, pharmacy management softwares.

It's just usually individual pharmacies will license the content or license the meds on queue. Um, individuals have their own pharmacy and they would pay them the licensing fee. The 

[00:27:02] Mike Koelzer, Host: relationship with pioneer. Giving it to everybody. Is that 

[00:27:08] Richard Waithe, PharmD: rather new? They're not the first that we've integrated with. Um, but they're the first to provide this to every one of their, every one of their independent pharmacies.

Our first, uh, integration was with RX 30, um, back in like 2013, I think. Um, but again, we've, we're integrated with almost all of them, uh, but they've mostly been just an individual basis. Um, individually, if the pharmacies wanted to have this and sign up, they. Um, but pioneer was the first one to take the leap and say, look, we, we want this to be a standard feature in every single pharmacy.

Um, so let's, you know, let's get this relationship in, in that 

[00:27:40] Mike Koelzer, Host: position. Yeah. Congratulations to you guys on that. Do you have any plans to? Monopolize on people saying, oh, this is so easy. Now that it's on here, will you have anything else that you're able to offer? Let's say a pioneer pharmacy that says, Hey, VUCA is so cool.

oh, we're gonna now use the VUCA, this, that an individual pharmacy will come to 

[00:28:11] Richard Waithe, PharmD: you. We will, um, in the future, but, but nothing yet. I have a lot of ideas as to what that's going to be, but, uh, but we have a lot of work to do with our current product first. Yeah. Um, before we, uh, start some of our other value added services.

All right. 

[00:28:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: Don't give away any company secrets, Richard, but gimme just a taste of what something else might be. 

[00:28:32] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Uh, uh, I mean, a taste of something else might be would, it would be anything that can help a pharmacy, um, stay competitive. We're going to help them with yeah. Based 

[00:28:42] Mike Koelzer, Host: on communication or not even necessarily that 

[00:28:44] Richard Waithe, PharmD: based on communication, whether that be marketing, um, whether that be, uh, communication with their patients.

Yeah. Um, educating their patients, uh, that along the front of making sure that their patients are well educated with their health. Gotcha. Um, and their medications and, and being that I feel like, uh, you know, I, I try to put myself in an owner's position, um, as much as possible. And I feel like I'm the owner of a pharmacy.

Uh, the better relationships that I can have with my patients, which usually comes from communicating with them the best yeah. Is the better, um, I'd be able to retain them and, and continue to have a, a, a striving business. Yeah. Especially because I think that. Uh, uh, independent pharmacy specifically. And, and I think this is retail, uh, chains, but independence as well.

The model, the revenue streams are, are changing significantly and they're gonna continue to change significantly. Yeah. And I think, um, as pharmacy owners want to continue to adapt with that. They're going to need to have, um, a capability of communicating better with their patients than their, than their competition.

Gotcha. To continue to like bringing in those revenue streams. So we're gonna try to be in a position to help them do that as the years go on the way that my current vision is, I don't see us providing something to pharmacies that they can then turn around and directly charge a patient for. Gotcha. I don't see us being in that role, uh, in the near future.

I mean, obviously, you know, I could, something could happen and we can come up with a new plan. Right. I see it on the other front of. Uh, no matter what it is that your pharmacy wants to do, we're, we'll try to see how we can best help you communicate that and educate your patients. Gotcha. Um, on, on their health and medications and make them want to continue to use you and have you as their 

[00:30:21] Mike Koelzer, Host: pharmacy.

Gotcha. Yeah. There's a million things, you know, there's sons and daughters that live two states away and there's a 95 year old. Mother in the nursing home. And if you could at least get the communication part down, you've solved a lot of problems for people, you know, without directly charging in that capacity for it.

Exactly. Yep. Richard, we all learned by our mistakes and so on. Is there anything that you would have done a lot differently? since you've been there, maybe a path you went down that you kind of wish you hadn't or something you maybe missed on that you're playing catch up on now, or has everything kind of been enough just of learning experiences and then you're pretty happy where you are with 

[00:31:14] Richard Waithe, PharmD: VUCA specifically.

Yeah with VCA, luckily, and fortunately, I, I haven't seen anything that we've done. Uh, I stepped on it. Yeah, yet. Yeah. Um, now I think that there will probably be something in five years from now that I may have been like, man, I should have looked at that in 2020. Sure. Look back on. Right. But, uh, right now I think we are.

We're growing. And, uh, we have a lot of plans in place that are trying to capitalize on as much opportunity as we can now. Yeah. In terms of growth, in terms of, um, the type of content we're creating in terms of our marketing strategies. Right. So, um, fortunately, and luckily, I, I can't, I can't think of anything specific that I can say.

Here's one thing that I will say that I wanted to do and I haven't done yet. I know eventually we'll do it, and, and I'm not in a rush to do it, but one thing I do want to do is be able to provide. Uh, like an Alexa briefing or some sort of like briefing on new medications, um, or updates to medications that have come out.

Um, I know that that's probably something I'm missing out on now because I'm not executing on. Uh, and I think being a content company that creates a company that creates content about medications, we should be able to do that. So, uh, that's something I, I would pro I'm sure I'm gonna regret, not like not doing more on, um, but we're trying our best out here.

So, but eventually we'll, we'll get there a briefing 

[00:32:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: where a healthcare worker can say, tell me about the new, the new drug that's out for such and 

[00:32:40] Richard Waithe, PharmD: such play the VUCA briefing for today. Right. And it would just be a briefing about, um, like the today's news of either. Yeah. Uh, information about a quick medication, mostly for healthcare providers, whether it's a refresh or recap, um, or, or telling me about a new medication that just got approved, right.

Or a new health warning that, or a new like black box warning that just came out or something like that. Um, I wanna do something like that and we'll do it eventually because we, we will, we should have the infrastructure to do it. Um, and do it where it's like either daily or weekly, right. But, uh, but we have a lot of marketing strategy and initiatives that we're working on for this year that, uh, we'll be launching.

So, and that might be, that might be part of it. 

[00:33:19] Mike Koelzer, Host: What are your favorite programs you're using to manage all this as far as project management software and so on. Are you using anything interesting? Our, 

[00:33:30] Richard Waithe, PharmD: it is like their own project management thing that they utilize. Um, I'm not heavily involved, uh, in that I think they use something called base camp or something like that.

I just looked 

[00:33:39] Mike Koelzer, Host: at base camp today. I haven't touched it in like three years. And so they said, do you wanna. Lose your subscriber name or something. And then in the meantime I looked at it, so they've got some cool stuff going on now. Yeah. Pretty interesting 

[00:33:52] Richard Waithe, PharmD: stuff. I have my own tools that I utilize. Like I use, um, Microsoft lists.

I think that's really helpful for me to keep organized. Um, I produce a lot of content on, uh, Canva. 

[00:34:03] Mike Koelzer, Host: Oh, I love Canva. Yeah. 

[00:34:05] Richard Waithe, PharmD: Love Canva. Yeah. But, uh, Basecamp is what, like our IT department uses. Um, when they're working on things, do you even 

[00:34:11] Mike Koelzer, Host: have an accountant net or you're just like, nah, just leave me out of it.

No, 

[00:34:14] Richard Waithe, PharmD: no, no. I just, I let them take care of it. Good. If they need me for something. Um, you know, we have operational meetings that I go through, but. Um, I'm in the weeds on certain things, but, um, on the, on the it side, uh, they, you know, I, we, we provide them with direction. This is what we need done. Um, cool.

And they 

[00:34:30] Mike Koelzer, Host: figure it out. A lot of times it's better not to learn the system as far as. What's going on then you're like, you know, I, I don't know. Just tell me, cause I can't even touch that. I did that with the pharmacy system for the last few years, but now I'm pretty heavy into it, but it's a good excuse.

Sometimes a 

[00:34:47] Richard Waithe, PharmD: a lot of times it's just, that's why you have an IT department, you know, like it's so they can, they can do that stuff and not, you don't have to worry about it. Um, you can worry about the other things, so absolutely. 

[00:34:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: Today's a work date. You're a busy guy. I got the day off for some reason.

I'm just gonna go hang out, back in my kitchen and have my next snack for the day, but you've got places to go and people to talk to, but thanks so much for spending time with us today. 

[00:35:12] Richard Waithe, PharmD: No problem at all, Mike, thank you so much for having me on. I really do appreciate it and, uh, hopefully I can, I can make it back on sometime during the year.

[00:35:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: Thanks a lot, Richard. Nice to see you. Likewise, nice talking to.