The Business of Pharmacy Podcast™
Sept. 13, 2021

Confidently Becoming Your Own Boss | Jamie Wilkey, PharmD, PGx Consulting Confidence Academy Founder

Confidently Becoming Your Own Boss | Jamie Wilkey, PharmD, PGx Consulting Confidence Academy Founder

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD, is the founder of the PGx Consulting Confidence Academy



Confidently Becoming Your Own Boss | Jamie Wilkey, PharmD, PGx Consulting Confidence Academy Founder

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Jamie for those who haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell our listeners what we're talking about 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: today. I'm Dr. Jamie Wilkey. I was a retail pharmacist for 10 plus years, and I felt really frustrated and burned out my profession and felt like there was nowhere else to go. But over the past year and a half, I left retail, created my own consulting.

Screw that consulting practice. And now I'm helping other pharmacists create consulting practices too. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Could you have said I'm getting the hell out of pharmacy? I can't see anything about this and go off and do whatever. Or did you know that you were gonna land in pharmacy somewhere? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: No way. I thought.

That I was gonna get out of pharmacy completely because even though I was a pharmacist, I don't like medicine. I don't take medicine. My family doesn't take medicine. I really felt like I was pigeonholed in a career and it didn't actually suit my [00:01:00] personality or my interests because in retail I felt like I was just medicating my patients, which isn't something that I really.

Loved doing it. And so for years I was looking for a way out of retail in all other sectors. Cuz I thought there's nothing in pharmacy. I like at all. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So when you got into pharmacy for a time there, you thought it was the wrong profession because you didn't even like medicine at all. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, exactly. So when I first started, I thought it was the perfect profession for me because I got a doctorate degree, which was important to me as a female and all about female empowerment.

Achieving the most, I was able to get a doctorate degree, get a really good job right out of school and work just part-time. As I had my young family, it felt like the perfect career that I could be out of the work picture for. Years and I still come back and there's no corporate ladder to climb, cuz there's no other position other than pharmacy manager to attain.

And so what I [00:02:00] loved about my career for the first five or seven years then became a huge drawback and felt like, well, I loved this, but now I'm stuck. What 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You thought the benefit of not having a corporate ladder to go up became the curse of, there was nowhere to go. Exactly. Yeah, you gotta be careful what you wish for.

Cause you'll get it. How long were you in retail then? Altogether 10 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: years. All at Walgreens. I just had one job and some pharmacist all those years. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Did you ever think that maybe just my current job sucks and I should go somewhere else? Or were you like this whole thing sucks. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh no. I thought it's just Walgreens.

That's bad. I know everyone's complaining, but if I could. A position at a different pharmacy than everything would be better. And I know it wouldn't be perfect, but I spent years applying for different jobs here in Utah and never heard back from any of them. All of my free time was devoted to applying to other [00:03:00] retail positions thinking, well, they have better hours or they might, they might have a better scheduler, but it got me nowhere.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Do you think if you got a different job, you would've been satisfied at all, or do you think that was just going down the wrong path in retrospect? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh yeah, just the wrong path. It's just a different flavor of misery and the grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and see that really retail is retail and.

It's all the same. What's different is the staff you're working with or the system, but really it's all the same job. And so I'm glad that none of that panned out and then I never got one interview or callback because it just made me get out of retail completely, so much faster instead of prolonging the pain.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Do you think that career is good for anyone? Or do you think that in the state that you're in, do you think it's just a terrible choice for everybody? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: No, I don't think it's a terrible choice for everybody. For me, it served me really well for [00:04:00] all those years when I was looking for a part-time job that let me clock in and out.

And then I never had to think of it again, while I had a young family and it really helped. Set us up. Well, financially but long term, I couldn't do it forever, but I know plenty of pharmacists who are happy in that position. And it's not, I'm not demonizing it. saying if you're, if you're happy, then you shouldn't be, but it's the way it's going and The more stress that's being put on it in the decreased reimbursement, it just feels like a really vulnerable place to be. If that's where your whole career is, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You said so. I'm going to get out of this. Did you set yourself a goal or did you just say, I gotta start looking? How did you know it was time to go?

And did you have a goal in mind to say it's gonna be done by this date? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh, yeah. So last summer I was working in the COVID testing site for Walgreens. [00:05:00] I left working from the retail and was doing all of their COVID tests. And Mike was just working outside, cuz we were doing it outside in their parking lot.

Just working outside made me feel so liberated and like I'm not stuck behind a counter anymore. I'm feeling fresh air. I can kind of move around. I was still locked into the test site, but just feeling freedom from the pharmacy. And that like physical space being locked in, just set my heart on fire. And I was like, oh my gosh, I've gotta get outta here in six months or less.

Because if this is what it feels like to have freedom, and I was still at Walgreens doing a very repetitive job, then I gotta jump on that train. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: My pharmacy happens to be on a peninsula. And so I've got three walls. are Part windows, you know? So I don't take that for granted that I can look out and see three signs of life, you know, from where I am at all times.

And I bet that really makes a difference. [00:06:00] 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: It does. Cuz if you don't know if it's day or night, summer, winter, it just, it feels like you're in another space. Another world 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You can't see outside at all. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Not unless you walk over to the drive through window. and crane, your head around the brick wall. Yeah. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That's a 

pretty low bar.

I know prisoners that can see outside, like in the movies, they've got those little windows up top and the birds come and stuff like that. I mean, that's a low bar. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: It 

is a low 

bar. And you just feel like you're in a, a goldfish trapped in a fishbowl where all the people looking in at you and staring at you and I couldn't ever leave other than five seconds to go to the bathroom.

otherwise Everything grinds to a halt. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It just felt so claustrophobic. And once I got the itch to get out and felt like, well, there's really like, I'm actually gonna do this. Then I was even more frustrated at work because I knew there was something more out there rather than just being resigned and kind of growing pay for my job.

I started getting a hundred percent burned out and so. [00:07:00] Like, I couldn't even be there anymore. Once I knew that there was so much more, 

That little taste of freedom made it even worse. Yes. So you gave yourself six 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: months. Mm-hmm so I'm gonna quit completely. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Why six months was that you just felt you could do it in six 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: months.

That was achievable. It gave me enough. It felt like it was enough time and not rushing too much, but also to keep me accountable. Cuz once you get into the years, then it just does not happen. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. That's it. Six months. What was the first physical action you took besides putting that on your calendar? What did you do next?


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: I spent every second of my free time and not free time absorbing information to decide what it was that I was gonna do, what it was that was gonna get me out because living in 2021, there's so many resources, there's podcasts and audiobooks and articles. And so I just consumed everything too. What am I doing?

And what, is there anything interesting in the [00:08:00] field of pharmacy that I'm interested in? Because of that, during that time I got on LinkedIn and created a LinkedIn account. And that to me felt like walking out of a dark cave, kind of like working outside for the first time to say, wow, There's pharmacists doing so many things.

I had no idea that was an option. Oh, get me outta here. If they can do it, I can do it. I'm making this happen. Do you think that's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: kinda rare for a chain pharmacist to have a LinkedIn account almost like they don't want that input from the outside world? Is it almost subconscious or do you think that, I mean, if you haven't done it, you are probably a good example of a chain pharmacist.

Mm-hmm it seems if you haven't done it a lot, maybe you haven't, is that the case? Oh, 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: That's totally the case. And I know, because once I created that account, I wanted, you know, to be connected to people, to have a network. So I looked up everyone that I knew in Utah who were retail pharmacists, no one's there.

And you couldn't find them. I couldn't find them. They weren't even, they didn't even have an [00:09:00] account, let alone were active. So I was complaining to my husband. Like I'm never gonna get any connections cuz all the people I know aren't on here. Like I don't, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I don't know anyone. Here's what I think they did.

I think all the pharmacists. Have this very active group in Utah and they got together and they all blocked you. And they said, don't let grumpy Jamie in. I think that way, sometimes that wasn't the case though. They just didn't have one. They just 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: don't even have one. Like they're just, which is interesting because everyone's part-time job is like looking on for other jobs and like just scanning for any other job that you could have in Utah specifically, cuz everyone's complaining about their job.

So everyone's looking like it's their job for another job, but then no, one's. On LinkedIn, which is where it's all happening, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Everybody's looking, but they didn't make the connection to go on LinkedIn to rub some elbows with people. Mm-hmm to try to find a job. Mm-hmm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Well, that's what I did for years.

I just scrolled [00:10:00] and complained about the horrible position I was in. And I didn't do it for years. So I get it. It just didn't even occur to me. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm gonna say it's like a psychological thing. Patty Hurst. I know I'm dating myself, but I know you don't know petty Hurst, 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: do you? Her name's familiar, but I don't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: she was like the daughter of a wealthy publisher and she got kidnapped by this group.

And then they finally found her, they showed her using a gun for this group to Rob a bank or something like that, but it was like, they're so caught up in that. Life that they don't think there's a way out. And even though there's signs that well, in this case, there's signs that they should be on LinkedIn doing it.

They haven't done that. I'm really surprised someone like you had not been on LinkedIn until a year ago, a year ago. That's fascinating to me. I know [00:11:00] it's amazing. It almost sounds like a psychological thing. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: I think there's something that I really do. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Like, you didn't want to see what was out there. You didn't wanna see that window , you know, because it kind of sucked for you to see the window when you were working that way.

And LinkedIn is kind of another window. Maybe you didn't even wanna see it. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. Cuz then I. Would realize that I could do so much more and it would be frustrating, which is exactly what happened. And then I had to act on it, but it just goes to show what can happen in a really incredible year. And if I can do it, anyone can do it.

And who, if, who you are is not who you can be. And so it is just a Testament to the power of social networking. being able to find the people who are looking for you and who you can learn from all across the world. They're just there at the touch of a button. It's pretty incredible. Jamie, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm gonna play devil's advocate.

Okay. I'm gonna say that you are [00:12:00] doing it better because of your bubbly personality. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Okay. That's probably true. I do have the personality for 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it. You have the personality, you're a magnet on there to attract people to what you're doing. Not to take anything away from what you're doing. It's a nice combination.

You have. . 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. And it's where I feel like I'm finally meant to be. I was completely unrecognized at Walgreens. My district manager said, you're the happiest pharmacist I've ever met. We love working with you, but did I get a raise for the past six years? No. Did I get a PTO? No. Did I like getting any sort of reward for that?

No. And so for so many years I was just living under. My potential because I didn't do anything about it. So now it's such a fun place to be, to be able to connect with so many people in the world using those skills I have. And even if you're. [00:13:00] like me and all bubbly and exciting to be able to network and connect is such a valuable, valuable thing.

And that's where there's so much promise for pharmacy and there's promise 

Mike Koelzer, Host: for others that you can help them see the light. And there's still promise for pharmacy in the profession. Is that what you 


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, that's exactly what 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I mean. All right. So a year. You gave yourself six months, right? Mm-hmm you started looking all over making connections and so.

Kind of the chicken and the egg. Was it what you were going to do along with social media? I think social media is a huge part of this for you, right? Mm-hmm more so than billboards or TV or things like that. Oh yeah, for sure. Social media is dramatically underpriced, you know, to get people's attention.

It's not that you couldn't have a super bowl ad for your stuff, but you'd be wasting money on that. It's too overpriced for what you're gonna get from it. Mm-hmm . [00:14:00] So the chicken and the egg, was it saying I wanna do something and social media's gonna help it grow or was it like, I'm gonna do this in particular and, oh, I think I.

get it going on social media. It was 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: definitely the latter. So I got my PGX consulting practice up and running. What is that for our listeners? Oh, okay. So it's PGX pharmacogenomics, which is looking at your DNA. It's just a cheek swab. And so then with that cheek swab, you know, for the rest of your.

How your DNA responds to medication. So it's like a map for how medication works for you. So doctors aren't just guessing with medicine anymore, so that you can see what's likely to work. And so I became a consultant pharmacist and got into practice, started seeing patients at a clinic here in Utah, got that up and running.

And then on my five year plan. In the fifth year I wrote down, I'd like to create [00:15:00] a course or help pharmacists in some way, do what I'm doing as well. And that's supposed to be five years away. But after I created the practice and started kind of like sharing about it on social media, so many pharmacists flooded me with requests saying, oh, will you coach me?

Oh, will you help me? That's exactly what I wanna do. Help, help, help, help, help. And so very quickly that escalated to say, well, one to save myself valuable time and two to use the power of social media. I'm just going to create a solution for an army of pharmacists and help them get into practice. Through this academy I created that will help them move them forward.

Using the power of social media, it just happened so much sooner than I expected. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You thought you were gonna make some business up mm-hmm and then build that business for five years and then reach out and teach others to do it. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, that was on my, [00:16:00] my vision board in five years, I would help other pharmacists, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: pharmacists.

I'm just guessing they were probably interested in what you were doing, but probably more interested that you made the leap out. Retail pharmacy for others that might not be their bag. Mm-hmm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: exactly. Cuz so many pharmacists are looking to get out of retail and are interested in using their knowledge and not completely leaving pharmacy.

And so. They reached out to me and in a way to conserve my time and rather coaching all these individual people one by one by one, I dumped my whole brain into the PGX consulting confidence academy, where now I can teach an empower and army of pharmacists to move this forward. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What you thought would then be a hundred percent of your income?

Every year for five years now, all of a sudden that's gonna become a less percent of your [00:17:00] income because you're consulting of other pharmacists is becoming a bigger part of your income 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: mm-hmm , which is kind of a fun, exciting place to be. That's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: really cool. In the name PGX consulting confidence academy.

Once that word confidence was there, I saw it. I said, that's a cool word in there. Is it because pharmacists don't have any confidence going out to do something like this? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Absolutely. Pharmacists are so good at learning knowledge and they. Know so much and where I see them struggle, they're not confident enough to put it into practice and to go into business for themself.

They're just stuck with the knowledge and gaining more and more knowledge, getting more and more certifications and more letters behind their name. But unless that's actually helping them grow their career and earn more money, then it's just a form of procrastination. . 

Mike Koelzer, Host: How did you decide to actually add that word to the name of your [00:18:00] consulting business?

It's a great thing. I mean, it's cool. It really jumped out at me to see that, you know, the confidence, because I would just have put PGX consulting academy and I'd say, well, we build confidence in my mission statement. You know, I would say that kind of stuff, but how did you decide though, Jamie to put confidence right in the 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: title?

Because that's what. And my aim is to get pharmacists confident and take action. This isn't just another thing that you learn and learn and learn, and then do nothing with this is taking action and changing your future. And so I probably haven't thought about it as much as you have just now. It just came naturally to me that I want pharmacists confident by the time we're done.

And to show that what we're doing is actually doing something instead of just learning. More didactic information. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Would it be 

true that it's almost to the point where you say, I don't [00:19:00] care, what I'm teaching pharmacists to do. I'm giving them hope. I'm giving them joy. I'm giving them money. Does it matter what you did?

Does it matter? what you're teaching 


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: That's a good question. And it 

Mike Koelzer, Host: started off mattering very much because pharmacogenomics was important to me in that it's completely underutilized and I see so much potential and there's like, no, there's no competition in this space. No pharmacists are out doing this.

And so it 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: started. With pharmacogenomics is the heart because everyone's interested in it. No, one's doing it, but now it's fun. Cuz I get to pull in all other areas of pharmacy to compliment that practice and to help. Help pharmacists make the practice of their dreams. So PGX for me is the core of it and the heart and what I think all pharmacists should master.

And then I get to provide [00:20:00] a of options and say, look at all these other ways that can compliment your practice as a pharmacist and bring it all together. So. Yes to both. It started out strong in PGX because I was frustrated that this amazing part of precision medicine was not championed by pharmacists, but then it's growing into empowering pharmacists into so many other places to grow it as a compliment to the core.

Mike Koelzer, Host: How did you learn your PGX stuff? I mean, now people have you to go to, but how did you learn? This new skill, 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: uh, trial and error, and a lot of failing and a lot of failing forward because there's just not that much information out there for pharmacists, especially to build this unique kind of practice. So I just got on the phone with anyone who would talk with me in this space and did a crazy amount of research and just took steps into the [00:21:00] dark and figured it out.

Mike Koelzer, Host: All right. So when you get other pharmacists on board, Are they buying anything from you? Besides knowledge? Are they buying kits from you? No. So this isn't like Amway 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: right. No, this is just me telling everything I know about this and providing all the opportunities out there, but is not saying like, oh, now you're.

Now you're yeah. Locked in in that way. It's just showing how to do it and who I think are great people to work with, but no pressure to work with any of them. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. Cuz I didn't know a damn thing about it. Jamie, when you started talking about testing and cheek swabs and stuff, I thought, oh Jamie joined Amway you know, because I thought that there was all kinds of stuff that you were selling.

Well, I didn't [00:22:00] think that I was wondering when I saw your stuff. I'm like, is there something to buy with this? And then I read more and I realized that, no, it's not a purchase thing. It's a consulting thing. Mm-hmm so all these people are paying you money just because you're smart and you give them information.

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: And a network of support. That's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: gotta be cool too, to have people pay you for what's upstairs. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: That's amazing as pharmacists we give all of our what's upstairs, away for free, and we've gotta change that. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That must have been really cool to get your first dollar. I'm sure it's posted on your wall somewhere.


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: so rewarding. Yes. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I see LinkedIn long form. I know that probably works pretty well for you. Has that been your best method of sharing your news slash building your business right now? You're consulting [00:23:00] business. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, that's really the only advertising I've done is just a LinkedIn post. Because as a pharmacist, I don't, I'm still mastering the whole marketing world.

And so all of this has come from LinkedIn and my LinkedIn account is free. It's the greatest resource out there and it's free 

Mike Koelzer, Host: now. You gotta find a way to get all those people in the Dungeons without LinkedIn to come across it. But I'm sure. As busy as you need to be right now, but that seems like that would be another hurdle is to get the people on there.

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. And that's what I'm assembling a team for is to get that search engine optimization and to get all the other people who are not on active on LinkedIn, which is very few pharmacists truly, um, which is 

Mike Koelzer, Host: exciting about 12 years ago now I started an independent pharmacy [00:24:00] group on LinkedIn. That was over a decade ago.

And just like last year it started flying. I mean, people start joining, so it's amazing how many people aren't there yet. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. But with technology, you can reach anyone in the world who's looking for you. So it's a good place to be. And then more skills. I get to learn to grow this out, to help as many pharmacists as possible.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm taking that. You don't have any employees. Yet, or do you have employees? No, 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: but I work with a fair amount of contractors, uh, contractors, right? Yeah. Contractors are amazing. I love it. So 

Mike Koelzer, Host: what 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: contractors do you have? So I have a marketing team that's helping me to grow out of, out of the whole LinkedIn space.

And I have a VA who helps so much and I'm going to hire another contracted, um, administrative [00:25:00] assistant. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: VA virtual assistant mm-hmm I would've loved to have been like a boss, like back in the 1950s and have my secretary come in and I would say, take this down. And they would do it with, you know, shorthand and stuff like that.

But it seems like nowadays, what do you need a virtual assistant for? That's not gonna take longer to explain to him or her what to do than you would just do. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: oh man. So many of the little tasks of the days, because time is so precious and it's so easy to give away. And so just all of the monotonous tasks, like email, so many email responses are the same, so they can take care of, of the emailing as well as, um, a lot of the backend of creating webinars and like getting the email campaigns up and going all these things that I'm.

Can do it, but it just takes so much time outside of my time with patients and my [00:26:00] family, that I would much rather give it to someone else because truly time wealth is the greatest wealth for me to have. I did not create my own business just to be insanely busy. And it's smart to offload tasks, even though it's really a pain to teach someone when it's faster to do it.

It's worth it. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Your email, does your assistant go right into your box and pull emails out? Or are you forwarding things to them and saying, do this or that? How is that structured? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: It's all forwarding right now. Do all 

Mike Koelzer, Host: this. You're picking emails out and saying handle these, and then they clear from your box mm-hmm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: and clear from my mind 

Mike Koelzer, Host: when you mention webinars, you're putting your own on mm-hmm and you are.

Charging for those. I take it, but that's your funnel. Mm-hmm . 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. And that's where I can talk with all the pharmacists who are interested in what I do at once. And 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Then you're following up with them. Mm-hmm [00:27:00] because they had to give you their email and stuff to get in mm-hmm . So how do you follow up with them then?

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: With email and with sometimes LinkedIn messages, if that's where we connect on there, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Are you doing any personal things with them or is it all part of your database you're building? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Well, that's the fun part. They get to do the, my assistant gets to do all the group emails and I get to reach out to all the individual people that I'm recognizing on there.

And then that's the fun part. Then I get to be me and interact with people in the way I want to, and they can take care of the big boring stuff. Where's your 

Mike Koelzer, Host: assistant live? In the Philippines 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: That's what I thought, yeah, I'm a smart business owner. How'd you get your assistant? Oh, another friend of mine who's the CEO was hiring another VA and he's like, I have a second, I have a runner up.

Do you want them? And I was like, heck yeah. So I didn't even have to do any of the work. He just got handed to me on a silver 

Mike Koelzer, Host: platter. Bring me through a typical day. Now the goods and [00:28:00] the bad. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: So I see my patients several days a week in the clinic here in Utah. And what is involved in that is the front desk sees patients who are polypharmacy patients who are on multiple medications.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Wait, when you say clinic, what do you mean? Your rented 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: space? Mm-hmm in a, in a, in an existing clinic. So they let me come 

Mike Koelzer, Host: like a healthcare 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: clinic or, yeah, it's actually a tribal medicine clinic. So it's like. Integrative functional wellness practice. It's so cool. Gotcha. Okay. So they have patients come in for a variety of reasons.

And when they see that they're on multiple medications, they say, oh, you need to see Dr. Wilkie. Let's set up an appointment with her. And so they book out my schedule. I meet with the patients and it's a two appointment, um, structure where the first appointment, we're just getting their history and understanding where they're coming from, what medicines they're on, what their health conditions are, how they're being [00:29:00] managed.

If they feel like they have robust health. And if not, what true health looks like for them and kind of understand how well they understand their medications and where they're coming from. And during that test, we do the DNA swab. and then three weeks later, the swab results are back. My conclusions are back.

So then I meet with a patient a second time for usually 45 minutes to an hour. And we sit down and review not only the DNA results, but the drug, drug interactions, drug, food interactions, drug, drug, gene interactions, and kind of the polypharmacy, the duplicate therapy kind of goes through everything in the file, not just.

The PGX drug gene interactions, and it's such a rewarding conversation. This is why I went to pharmacy school, was to have those encounters really cool. I'll do that a couple days a week. Um, and then the other days I work on building the, in the information from my PGX consulting [00:30:00] confidence academy.

So I'm always adding new information, new updates, new interviews. And so. the days that I'm not at the clinic, then I'm filling up the academy and helping move those pharmacists even more forward. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You're at your desk at home. Mm-hmm do you like that better than, uh, going out to the building? Yeah. Going 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: out to the clinics.

Yeah. I love being home. I never thought as a pharmacist I'd be able to work from home unless I was like an IT pharmacist. So this is a dream come true. If 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You could tomorrow, would you say I'm not going back to the clinic at all because my consulting to pharmacist businesses is enough, or do you feel like you owe something to going there still?

So you can tell the pharmacist that you're consulting. It's like, well, yeah, I still do this. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: I feel both. But time is precious. And so I, I know in time I'm gonna have to replace myself and hire another pharmacist to do that, [00:31:00] to really scale this where I see my academy going to have the full impact I see.

And so my hope is to still be in it and see how it's working, but not necessarily lock my time in as much as I am. Right. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: when you grow your business, what are you growing actually? Are you growing the sale of your program? Mm-hmm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: yeah, the academy is the program. So I see that as one angle to it, to grow that, so that it's even easier to access and use and to have more of the bells and whistles, cuz right now it's just me and I'm the bottleneck.

And so to add the finishing polishes that. Really nice, but also I have bigger views of taking this internationally and helping other pharmacists around the world, because if we think we're behind in the United States, every other country's behind us. And I've had a lot of interesting [00:32:00] conversations that are paving the way for that to happen too.

So, Hmm. It's a fun place too. What is 

Mike Koelzer, Host: your deliverable? It's not a CD, that's old fashioned. It must be some kind of a web based thing that they're putting in a password and then getting videos of you and some computerized PDF or something. Is that 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: right? Yeah, it's an online course. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'll have to manage your way of saying it.

You can tell I'm old fashioned. So this is an online course and all the current bells and whistles of an online course, what does that mean these days? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: So it means pharmacists who are looking to get out of retail, but I have no clue where to start. I start at square one and teach them the basics of pharmacogenomics, how to get certified.

If they wanna get certified, lay out all the programs for. and then we go into how to work with labs and all the details on labs and how to work with providers. These are videos. Yeah. They're all videos. They're [00:33:00] all pre recorded videos where I talk about each of the subjects and then provide downloads for more information.

And so they are totally on your own time. You can go as fast as slow through all my different modules as you want. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So they get online, they get on your site. They have, how many videos do you have? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh, man, I think there's 120 now and growing 

Mike Koelzer, Host: 120 videos. Yeah. How long are they? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh, between 10 and 30 minutes.


Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. They're 10 to 30 minutes long. And you have like 120 of '

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: em. Yeah. And growing. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What the hell do you have to talk about for that much time? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: There's so much to talk about between working with labs, how to work with labs, how to pick which one you're using red flags to watch out for and how to talk with prescribers.

If you're interested in doing what I did, where you're working in a clinic, or [00:34:00] if you're interested in creating a different business model, I sh I just show you everything out. And include, like, it's like a baby MBA where we talk about how to structure a business, how to do accounting and legal and insurance.

And like just the business basics that pharmacists don't know, because we've never done anything like this before. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And then you said every video that they can go out and click on something, that'll take 'em to a form or a database or 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: whatever, right. Yeah. Or. Uh, reading into the topic, cuz I don't wanna record an hour and a half video where I'm just droning on and on.

I wanna keep it short and sweet and leave all the important information. And then if people wanna know more, then I give them all the resources. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What are they reading then stuff that you put 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: together? No, mostly like journal articles and scholarly work so that they can get a deep dive into it. But. Um, I put some things together and grew more and [00:35:00] it's pretty fun.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So you mean something like a, an article maybe on PGX something that you didn't write, but you can link to it and say, this is a pretty good article about this stuff that you had to do to put all this together, right? Mm-hmm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: yep. This is where I got this. And then you can read it if you want, or I'll just give you the short and sweet summary.


Mike Koelzer, Host: devil's advocate. Well, it works for you, Jamie, because you're in Utah by a reservation. Is this gonna work for everybody? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh yeah, it definitely works. You just have to think outside of the box and outside of traditional pharmacy and where I see a lot of pharmacists in my academy, having success is going, working with.

clinics that might not have a prescriber on staff, like a behavioral health clinic or an addiction clinic, or even like a wellness clinic at a chiropractor's office. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You're thinking through this and you say, [00:36:00] all right, my five year goal happened in one year mm-hmm . Do you have a 10 year goal? That's gonna happen this year?


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: uh, I don't think I'm gonna keep going at that speed, but I'm definitely escalating the timeline on a lot of other goals and seeing how fast you can actually make them happen and how to up what you're expecting from life. That's fun. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What are your next 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: goals? Oh, then I have to stick to 'em. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: No, you, no, one's listening to this.

It's just you and I talking. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Fill it out. Um, so my next, my next goals are to create like a, a co-op and a, a nationwide program for pharmacists to stay with me and to help as a group into the future [00:37:00] so that we can like provide the insurance solution and provide the, the support into pharmacists who are doing this into the future and to have like a group wide bargaining power.

and use that to our advantage instead of having everyone scattered around the country, doing their own thing, trying to figure out these resources themself, to create a group where we're all in this together and can use these resources and help each other out nationwide or worldwide, we'll start with nation and then we'll move to world.

I wanna make it like a co-op. Where we're like all in it together, but not necessarily like this stuffy institution, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you want this to be more 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: groupy, more groupy, more real life boots on the ground, like actually doing it than a stuffy institution whose hands are tied with what they can. And can't say, and can't 


Mike Koelzer, Host: It's an unfortunate [00:38:00] reality that when the associations are moving and there's some national associations really moving now, it's really cool to see, but when they're not moving, they can fall into that. People's picture of them as like they're a stuffy organization. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. So I'm building something big and then the form is coming together.

But the ultimate goal is to unite. People across the country and to give bargaining power and to give resources as a collective benefit for this interesting group of pharmacists who are doing something pretty novel and new, and that there aren't those collective group benefits and resources for, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: yeah, because the groups right now aren't specialized enough.

Point down 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: to this mm-hmm , especially for pharmacists. There's good there's good. PGX kind of, but pharmacists, I think should be the ones that champion it. We're kind of a unique profession. So that's my, [00:39:00] that's my next big goal. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So that'll happen in a year. It's a 10 year goal. That'll happen in a year. What's your next goal?

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Oh, man. My goal is just to get as many pharmacists out of miserable jobs as they can and show 'em everything that's available to 'em in the pharmacy. So I don't even know farther than that. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That's what I was getting at because everything I'm hearing from you so far is focused with the PGX, but I'm hearing in your voice.

It's like, yeah, that's part of it. And this has been good for me. And we can go down this road, but the main goal is. Getting the word out that there's hope out there. Yes. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: There's so much hope out there and to provide solutions that pharmacists can pick that work for them and their interest and their situation.

Mike Koelzer, Host: What is that though? Because so far we talked about going down the road of the PGX and the consulting in that and [00:40:00] getting into the group benefits and so on. But how would you go down the road of someone. I want the freedom and the hope that Jamie has given. I don't think it's PGX for me. Do you have any thoughts of saying, I wanna paint a picture of hope and business wise, I wanna sell hope on a bigger or wider level than only through the PGX.

What would that be? Yeah, that 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: would be expanding the. Support for pharmacists getting into other avenues, whether it's functional wellness or point of care testing or chronic care management to provide step by step hand, holding help to confidently get them there. If 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you had to put a nail into that one, that would be an online [00:41:00] program.

Similar to what you're doing, but more general, would you take it down that road or do you have ideas of a different road? No, I'm 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: taking, I, I have ideas of zooming out and taking it down that road and just providing even more opportunities for pharmacists 

Mike Koelzer, Host: through an online program. Yeah. That's worked well for you.


Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: worked. And then we'll start doing live conferences and awesome things. But living in 2021, the value of online programs, when people can access it on their own time and speed and space is so valuable 

Mike Koelzer, Host: with your personality. Do you ever think you would do just something broader than that? An online course with specifics of certain areas, they can go.

Do you ever see yourself being more of a motivational speaker in pharmacy? Do you think [00:42:00] there's a whole for that? Do you think the pharmacy profession has room for that? Maybe there's not enough room for it. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: There's 

gotta be room for it because I feel like there's so much. Gloom and despair in our profession.

Yeah, there's gotta be room. We need to counter that and to provide optimism because with 300,000 pharmacists in the United States, many of which are miserable, there's gotta be another option. 

And so. yeah, I'll be a pharmacy motivational speaker, sign me up. That would make me so happy. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I think that a lot of people, maybe who have been beaten down so hard by the system, don't escape from it with as much happiness and personality that you bring out of it.

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, that's probably true. And I'm not the typical [00:43:00] pharmacist. I think pharmacists, stereotypically are not social people and get nervous in presenting themselves and what they're doing. And so that as a group, it's hard to share and broadcast and to like promote what you're doing, cuz we just feel so insecure and about.

Just as a group, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I don't disagree. And I look at my podcasting. I'm the only podcast that is focused on the business of pharmacy. That really should not be the case in 2020. I mean, that should have happened. Like. 10 years ago. I think of other professions, I think of real estate and attorneys and all different kinds of professions.

And it was kind of late in the game to have that opening still in the pharmacy. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah. That's I think just the nature of our profession. We [00:44:00] art. Aren't putting ourselves out there and tradit and really are sticking with such traditional roles even. Time is changing quickly. So to even think about a podcast, because that's not a, a, a typical pharmacist role, like it hasn't even crossed so many minds let alone to actually do it.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Is it worse just for pharmacy though. I mean, do you think you can line up a bunch of professions like Dennis and doctors and technicians of this and that, do you think that's across the board or you think there's something special about pharmacists that they don't want to move in that direction? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: I think it's fairly typical for him.

but pharmacy in itself is so unique cuz we're just so used to people coming to us and then we give what we know for free and then they leave. So we never ever monetize our knowledge and like to push that [00:45:00] forward. It's always been stuck with the physical product of the prescription. And so that's really held us back and from having a voice and from moving forward to get away from.

That traditional role of, oh, people ask us questions for advice. We give it away, but unless we're giving them a prescription, we can't our, our knowledge isn't chargeable 

Mike Koelzer, Host: as pharmacists in our traditional roles, we still check off or we get approval. In most cases, it's the doctor's approval for what we're doing.

Mm. we're doing it, but we're getting the doctor saying to do it and then we're doing it. And we're kind of comparing that against what the insurance is gonna audit and all that kinda stuff. It can be rewarding because you have your marching orders at all times. Yes. And you really can't go off traditionally.

You don't go off that beaten path too much. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: Yeah, exactly. We just stay within our bubble and do what people tell us to do, do it really well. [00:46:00] But don't go outside of that. I ain't 

Mike Koelzer, Host: complaining though, because it leaves openings for someone like me to do this. It truly is an opening in 2020, not to have a podcast on this yet.

I think. And it's an opening for personalities like yours to shine. Not that you wouldn't shine in any industry, but I'm saying in pharmacy, it rises up more quickly even. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: oh, yeah, that's so true that there's, there's nothing but room at the top because few people are doing this. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So Jamie pulled away everything, pulled away all the pharmacy stuff and all that.

What would you really like to be doing in five years? 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: In five years working, uh, two hours a day, traveling the world with my family and still. Helping pharmacists move forward without locking my time into that endeavor. [00:47:00] 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And how important are those two hours a day? If I said we're gonna do two hours a week, would you fight that and say, Mike, I think I need my two hours a day of doing stuff.

I think I need to. Because I would be about where you are. Would you go less? Would you go two hours a week? One time my daughter said, uh, dad, you should read the four hour work week, you know, by Tim Ferris. I'm like, I already read it in two. Why would I want to double my work week? Well, that was when I wasn't, that's when I wasn't working so damn hard, like I am now because of some business changes.

But would you take your 10 hours a week or would you say I'll cut it down to. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: That's a good question. I could very easily fill my time with the things I love doing where work right now is my own space from my family. Cuz I have four little boys. So right now it's not only something I feel like I need to do, but is, is fun and engaging for me to do so.

I could, if I took [00:48:00] away from work, I would still choose to fill that with something. That's just for me, that would be so fun. So if I could do less, I would, and I would fill it with something that is still pushing and having me grow, but not quote unquote work. What would that be? Oh, just learning so many new skills, like adults, gym, gymnastics, and learning how to do flips and twirls or to learn a new language or to.

Learn new skills and just do things I felt like I never had time to do. And don't wanna wait until I quote unquote retire to do 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I've been building hobbies because I won't have the pharmacy forever in Florida. Eight years. I probably will still be around. I've been building things to do the one thing about business though.

That's a pretty cool competition. If you're, well, you didn't even mention competition. You were just saying learning, but if you like competition, it's a pretty cool [00:49:00] competition. Cause you know, everybody's fighting for that maybe limited amount of prizes and maybe it's not limited, you know, maybe that. Old thinking, but you would find enough that you wouldn't need the business as 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: stimulation.

Well, that's easy to say now, but in time I might choose that. That's what I love. And that's what I choose to do. Keep up those couple hours a day, which is a fun choice. You're 

Mike Koelzer, Host: getting more and more reward from what you're doing as you grow in an impact. People you're getting more and more of that. So when the time comes, whenever it is that two hours might be valuable, but might not be it's a good position to 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: be in.

Yeah. Then I can choose. And that's. That's why I'm going to all of this work, to create choices like that of good, better, best. And how do I wanna spend my time rather than I've gotta clock in and out to this job to make [00:50:00] X amount of dollars. So we keep the house it's, it's a great place to 

Mike Koelzer, Host: be. That's what I tell my wife.

It's like, I don't know if I wanna retire. I might get outta the pharmacy. I mean, I've had it on my mind for basically ever. I might get outta the pharmacy for a week and go stir crazy. Cause I don't have that on my mind, but the point is I wanna get to the point where I can make that choice 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: and you're making it from a place of abundance.

And it's what you're choosing rather than, well, I wanna do this, but I should do that. And I have to do this and. All 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That good stuff. Well, Jamie golly, nice talking to you. Best wishes on things. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: thank you. It's been so great to talk to you and get to know you, Mike. This has been so fun. It's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: fun to see real enthusiasm in life online.

I like that because a lot of people are just trying to sell something, but I like watching your stuff. It's real enthusiasm and it's [00:51:00] fun 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: to see. Thank you. It's fun to have a venue to share that with the world, cuz um, that's just me being me and now. It's fun to have so many more connections and friends all across the country that I never would've had without resources of today.


Mike Koelzer, Host: It's a nice balance of how you can do it to have all that. And I can do it just to be a grumpy old guy. 

Jamie Wilkey, PharmD: we can both have it all. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: We're a nice balance, Jamie. Yes. All right, Jamie, keep up the good work. It'll be fun watching you and best wishes on things. Thank you, Mike. Talk to you soon. See ya.