Comfortable in the Uncomfortable | Jena Quinn, PharmD, BCPPS, Perfecting Peds

Comfortable in the Uncomfortable | Jena Quinn, PharmD, BCPPS, Perfecting Peds

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Jenna, for those that haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and tell our listeners what we're talking about today.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: My name's Jenna Quinn. I am a business owner and pharmacist of Perfecting Peds, a company I birthed about a year ago. And we're talking about my journey not only into the business or starting the business, but really my journey in the past 15 months of being in the thick of it and figuring it out through failure, failing forward.

It's been fun, but, you know, Mike as an entrepreneur, it's never dull.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Now, Jenna, you said you birthed the business. Now, is that part of the joy of the baby thing as you get to use all these puns and so on in your marketing and stuff? 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: You know what? I don't, I think it's like that, because I've been in the pediatric field for over 11, 12 years. It just comes naturally everything kind of relates back to

peds and then 

On top of that, I have a [00:01:00] five, a three and a seven month old girl.

 So preface of my business is giving medically complex children and high risk pheno maternal medicine patients, that comprehensive medication management. So really top to bottom, having them have a clinical pharmacist as a part of their team.

Because I think for many reasons, obviously all of our high risk patients need it, but I think for many reasons, I think every patient needs it. and that would be amazing for us to get there. But, right now, my big contracts are through five various facilities. I came in with, really just quite frankly, my taking over their consultant pharmacist's role.

which again, has led to a lot of frustrations. so, you know, they gave it to me. There's a facility that has 119 beds and all these kids are extremely medically [00:02:00] complex. They're upward of, I mean, a low end of meds would be about 10 meds and then high as much as 30.

Mike Koelzer, Host: you took over. for somebody who was already consulting with them, for those children.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, 

That, that was like the preface behind my business was, you know, how can I get my hands on as many medically complex kids as possible? 

These five facilities that already had a clinical pharmacist that was there, reviewing their meds supposedly, I wanna keep it pc, but I think they were just, using these minimal amount of hours that they were given. So, for example, they asked for 15 hours a month for a 119 bed medically complex facility.

which is not reasonable. But then looking at these notes, it was evident that, you know, they were just looking for BP parameters or compliance checks and then I did the clinical. So I kind of rolled in underneath their, their [00:03:00] hourly rate, which they gave, you know, a lot less than what should be given, especially if you wanna do what these kids write?

Mike Koelzer, Host: And you're doing that remotely?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: yeah, so I have me, and actually I have, five other contractors, two, pharmacy technicians who do the compliance checks.

And then an intern who's super helpful, who is from my alumni, which is Rutgers, and she helps a ton too. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Are you doing it on, you know, spreadsheets, or is there a program that you're using to communicate with your other, contracted

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, that's a great question. So we use Dock Station, which is

awesome, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: yeah, I had Sam on the show early on so you use that. Well, that's really cool.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, he's awesome. So I found him early on too, so I. My LLC in August, 2021, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: When you say bought, you mean to legally do the llc. You didn't buy the patients.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: No, no, no, no. Just my llc. So I [00:04:00] started like, you know, as I said, I really was like, okay, I'm gonna go for this because I've been thinking about the problem. And I'm like, I know that we're the solution essentially clinical pharmacists are to serve these kids, right? So, um, and yeah, August, 2021 I bought my llc and then I was on this journey of, you know, okay, these facilities are giving me these. I actually didn't get the facilities until about eight months in. So in the beginning what I was doing was just like proof of concept. So I was taking a lot of private pay patients and just seeing like, you know, what can I find? Um, and I was putting them into Dock Station

because I found Sam and vaccination really early on.

and so I was using it to pull in, it was like a nice HL seven so you could keep everything in there. I was looking for a good intervention tracking system and doc station's awesome among many other things that it does.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Do you bill the families through Dock Station too?[00:05:00] 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: So they are coming out with a billing platform Right now. How I do everything is via keep. Are you familiar with that?

Mike Koelzer, Host: Is that like a, kinda, like a square, like an easier accounting 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: or like QuickBooks?

Mike Koelzer, Host: Simple or straightforward

Jena Quinn, PharmD: yes, it's very easy. so like keep has, you know, email automation. So that's how I was like checking in and, you know, publicizing what I was

doing. so like keep will every, you know, x amount of days will spit out like another email automation for you. So it was nice. and then, it has invoices.

 I'm trying to think of something else, uh, a business line, which is great cuz I'm starting to use it because you don't want people reaching out to your personal cell. 

I'm realizing that early on a year in, I'm like, okay, I need a good business line.

and so I really like that. just for, it gives you honestly everything business 1, 2, 3. but then Dock Station is actually now doing SMS to Your, like to your [00:06:00] patients, allowing your patients to go in and schedule through their calendar length. So they're catching up and I think vaccination is gonna be doing the billing too.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: But the reason why I was saying this journey is that the vaccination was the answer to getting insurance billed for my services. I was like, oh my god, taxation does billing for insurances. So I set up a meeting with the person that does insurance.

And basically, I would have a lot more leeway billing leeway if I entered what was called a collaborative practice agreement with the.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Have you started billing yet with the collaborative practice?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: So, yeah, that's a great question because when I got into these facilities and kind of uncovered the complexity of the patients, I was dumbfounded. Like, how was this organization prior given, you know, only 15 hours. I realized a couple things early on in it, and I [00:07:00] really learned from my mistakes. But, um, if you come into anything new, right, and you have all these wonderful ideas, and then you give these providers, recommendations that are like 10 to 15 recommendations for each patient.

the provider just freaked out, for lack of a better word.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: They were like, we understand like these are great clinical recommendations, but for us to implement these clinical interventions on each patient's gonna take months. 

Like we, we, already have like a huge workload, you know, and you come in and write, you know, 15 res 

on each chart. So that's where my first error was going in. And then one, realizing I don't have enough hours or enough resources. So the first thing was I was more worried about the resources, the pharmacist resources, like having the staff than I was anything else. Like, I'm like the money I'll worry about later.

October: [00:08:00] Once you had enough staff, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Were you able then to supplement those hours with collaborative care?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yes, but, there was some hesitancy on the administrator side he was worried that it was gonna be Medicaid fraud, which it is not, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: They wanted to make sure you weren't double dipping. And I imagine you then had to say No, here's the division of the hours

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, exactly. Mike. Cuz they were fearful but those hours that they gave me were just enough to do like the compliance checks to make sure, you know, everything's in date and stuff. And then also to do like the pharmacy and therapeutics meetings or the little, the projects that they were giving me in addition to the

clinical services. 

I also take private pay patients and what I do is I'm playing around with the model, but 200 a month, the 200 for the first month, and we do like extensive, top to bottom comprehensive med management.

 What's your goal on social media?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: A couple. So the goal for social media for me is really marketing. I think [00:09:00] I always use social media as a marketing tool, but really marketing to who I am, right? So you want people to get to know you and I think a lot of times when people get to know you and you're very authentic, like, I don't sugarcoat things.

There's not anything fake on there, you know, I'll put everything down to that. I'm on anxiety meds, everything about motherhood, my struggles. I think it's really to just show like, Hey, I'm. Just like everybody else, I think, you know, yes, I wanna of course market my business, but I really, my ultimate goal is to help as many medically complex kids as I can.

And so I think by doing that, if you're relatable and you can show what, and you're open about what you're doing and your trials and your failures, usually, you know, the other things come more authentically and dribble in

Mike Koelzer, Host: I know I've seen you on LinkedIn. What's your division between the different social [00:10:00] platforms, and obviously you have a different audience on those?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah. So, Michael, I ended up on this journey of buying my own business because I did multi-level marketing for many years. So I did, so that kind of gave me the carriage. When I was, my youngest daughter was one, I joined Fields and

Actually I was able to supplement my pharmacist salary by over half.

and so from that, I learned the skills of the mindset, right? Like I learned the mindset and I also on top of it, learned people don't like fake marketing. They want you to be authentically you, and so it doesn't benefit you or your patients or, you know, in, in this case, your clients.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: So you wanna be relatable. And so I kind of built that skill through Facebook and Instagram on my personal pages. And so I would always just do real life stuff, right? What motherhood struggles I was having that day or, you know, I always try to put like [00:11:00] mindset inspirational things.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So that's kind of your customer base per se? Well, that would be more the individual customers. And then what are you going after on LinkedIn?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yes, exactly. So my individual customers have always been Facebook and Instagram, and then on LinkedIn. Honestly, I'm trying to reach as many people as possible because when I envisioned perfecting peds, and when I started, it was not to just be in the local, tri-state area, you know, New Jersey, Delaware, and pa, because I think that will come organically, or it has been coming organically because I have all these connections, right?

And so I don't want only those kids to benefit. I want this to be, I want this to be the long term, and I want every state to have a perfecting ped. So my goal, quite frankly, is to. Do selfishly to promote perfecting peds, but two, to also motivate and inspire other pharmacists to let them know that they can do [00:12:00] this too.

Cause I think, you know, there's no gain from me doing that, but I think we all really can learn from other people who, uh, motivate us.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So a lot of times, Jen, people in your position, and frankly I think a lot of people do it too quickly, are becoming business coaches to new businesses. And I think sometimes they're jumping in to coach something they haven't even successfully done yet,

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I agree. It's funny. That's why I was laughing, cuz I completely agree. So my heart is clinical and patient, and how can I scale this? How can I affect as many patients? So I'm thinking like, I don't have any good connections, but like PBMs insurance, I have vision in five years I'll be matched with one of them and they'll just give me, Medically complex pediatric patients 

I laughed because I got asked to do something educational. [00:13:00] Like it was, you know, if you could educate a pharmacist that wants to do pediatric and maternal, you know, medicine. And I said, yeah, of course. So I actually, I said, I'm gonna be honest, this is not what my interest is, so I'm gonna hire somebody else to do it and I'll gladly like, approve her content and stuff.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You mean not only teaching her how to help people, but how to start their own business doing this

Jena Quinn, PharmD: No, this is just purely for education. Like how would you teach other pharmacists to be a pediatric and maternal health pharmacist? 

 Like if I'm a retail pharmacist and I have interest in fetal maternal medicine and pediatrics, what would you teach me? So it's like that's a great opportunity for perfecting peds to educate pharmacists so that more pharmacists feel empowered for that pedia, you know, to have that pediatric patient and not be like, oh crap, they're so scary.

but then I was also asked a bunch of times if people could pay me to coach them and Literally you took the words outta my mouth. One, [00:14:00] I, you know, I'm just enough, like I'm just getting seasoned in just the local area, you know, if I scale, cuz we have a couple really cool opportunities that are coming up.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: If and when, I'm gonna say when I scale, cuz you know, everything's mindset 

and years down the road maybe. But that's not where my heart is right now.

 And I don't actually, I don't have the patience to coach people. I don't have the patience to teach. And so I think too, knowing your own limitations, like I've 

never been a good teacher.

and 

so I have no interest. But I do see that, like, that was the hardest thing when I was trying to find a business coach for starting perfecting peds. Cuz I did hire a business coach. 

I was dumbfounded and was like, wait, you're coaching but you're not doing any of the things you're coaching, so, how is that valuable to either one of us? And that was a routine thing I was finding

Mike Koelzer, Host: Some people can do that, you know, some people they know their love's gonna be teaching and coaching, it's an honest development of [00:15:00] saying, maybe I haven't done it, but I spent five years at this university learning this and I have my MBA and my PhD and things like that.

 I'm not pretending I was successful in this. I just teach it. I just coached it. I think it has to do with being somewhat honest with the perception you're putting across to people.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah in your field, you can either fake it till you make it or show your journey. And I think especially in your situation, to have parents relate to you, that's a better way to go.

And I think too where you're, you are at it, your season in life because I 

remember you saying, you know, what's your activity on LinkedIn versus Facebook and Instagram? My Facebook and Instagram, I used to post at least four to five times a week, but now I do. I put my energy towards LinkedIn because I'm noticing that, like that's kind of where my season of life is more professional.

Like I'm enjoying [00:16:00] professional networking and actually, you know, enjoying reading other people's stuff on LinkedIn. And I like the mindset and the positivity that a lot of stuff is on LinkedIn, whereas like, my season of life of looking at like, people argue about, you know, 

dumb things on Instagram and Facebook isn't really there right now where it was four years ago.

So I think everybody, it's really true that everybody has their seasons.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You see this with real estate people,

 I rarely would go on social, on Insta or, Facebook on my 

personal account and promote my pharmacy. I might, years ago, maybe if I had an article in the paper or something like that, I might have done that about our pharmacy or things like that.

But the real estate people all the time, they're putting on their personal stuff. Like, here's this house, [00:17:00] here's this. And it just seems like it's focused on that industry. It's kind of strange. It'd be like me saying buy medicine from me all the time to everybody I know personally.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Right. It does get a little bit of overkill, but know what I was, I've done for a long time and I really didn't think much of it, and it was way before I even had my own business, was I always would post like common tips that I encountered in my parent parenting journey that related to pediatric medicine because I always felt like I'm so.

I'm so blessed to have this knowledge and I would always think, what would a parent do that didn't have this knowledge? where would it escalate to, you know, this is the wrong antibiotic choice. This is something that can be bought over the counter. This is, you know, I even like my daughter, like I was the first one to intervene on her speech therapy.

So what are they, what should we be looking for? So I always, before I even, you know, bought, [00:18:00] became a business owner of my own pediatric pharmacy consultant business, I always found myself that if I could provide value to one other person authentically, that's really what I wanted to do. Because I think we're in a really unique, blessed situation to have this medical knowledge.

And so 

How can we help other people?

Mike Koelzer, Host: As I think about my statement on real estate engine, I think that's good because you're giving tips, you know, and I can see like a real estate person saying, Hey, you know, winners here, put 3m, clear stuff on your windows or do this for your 

gutter, you know, whatever.

But just to say, you know, I sell houses. It'd be like you going on there and you know, buy the medicine or buy my consulting, or something like that. It's just

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think 

that's also, I think in general with just social media, I think it, whether intentionally or unintentionally, I think intentionally you have to really be, aware of [00:19:00] not being pushy and that's interesting enough, something I learned in MLM is that really you should be thinking about is how can I provide value to other people?

Regardless of where, or what topic it's on. But for me, like I said before I even owned this business, it was always with my own kids thinking, you know, would a mom who's not a pharmacist or in the medical profession know this? And if the answer was no, then I'd just like to write, you know, short, quick.

I, I, I think it also covid too, a lot of people relied on pharmacists for reliable information on, you know, the vaccines. And so that was something, especially when it became available to the pediatric population, I think that was really big, that was owned by us because I think a lot of people were looking for pharmacists for that guidance and that reassurance and the knowledge.

and that was another way I used social media too, is to really relate, just reliable facts because there was so [00:20:00] much other

Jena Quinn, PharmD: o Other

stuff going on in the background.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm the biggest, a-hole of them all because I think I'm doing it right. You know, I mean, that's the worst kind of person you want. Who thinks they're doing it right and the other persons are doing too much or too little. But, I don't know. The whole thing's just an interest.

An interesting thing. One of the comedians, I forget who it was, I think it was Norm McDonald who got his soul arrested, years ago it was, Hey, do you wanna see a picture of your great uncle? You know, here's this picture we found. He's on the farm, you know, feeding the hogs.

And then our kids, you know, like in 30 years, it's gonna say, Hey, , do you wanna see 200,000 pictures of grandma Mary and see what she had for lunch every day? Jenna, do some people really bug you?

in social media, real

Jena Quinn, PharmD: life, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: in life,

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah. Yes. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you, do you get pissed at him?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I would say [00:21:00] it's a small select hand view, but yes, of 

course. You're always 

gonna have those people. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: What are their traits? You don't like

 I think what makes me the most upset is when somebody has a big talk, but no action. I cannot stand that. So I think somebody who, you know, talks a big talk but then doesn't get things done, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Where do you see that, I think we're, that's why Mike, to go back to why I think it'd be such a bad coach is that like, I think so many of, I think so many of us, like, you know, people will be like, oh, can I steal like an hour of your time?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: And you give 'em an hour of your time and you give them, you know, recommendations. This happens quite frequently to pharmacists. They have this big goal and they're talking and they just don't do, you know, like I, I just am like, just put things into action.

Mike Koelzer, Host: In this scenario, who would ask for the hour of your time? Someone who's trying to

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Like 

build a business. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: They're trying for like, some shortcuts through you and you're saying just do it for a couple

Jena Quinn, PharmD: [00:22:00] Yeah. Like

action. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: more than I do even.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I think there's like a, when people have that where they're scared to do anything that you know, that, that fear where you're just like, frozen. I'm always like, you know, just do it. Like, just try it. Like, there's so many people who are so afraid to do so many things.

And I was just thinking about this before, like, I think, I'm not necessarily a risk taker, but you know, you learn through action and so I, I get like annoyed, like I said, if I was somebody's coach and they were coming back and reporting and like talking a big game, but nothing, no actions were being taken to get them there.

that's where I, that's probably where I'm the most short circuited

Mike Koelzer, Host: I've talked to some other people about this. I think pharmacists are pretty good at that because you've got your initials behind your names and it's fairly easy to get some other certifications. I mean, in the scheme of things,

Jena Quinn, PharmD: We wanna go crazy with the [00:23:00] certs 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it's probably easier to get some more letters behind your name than spending that same amount of hours, you know, it.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: doing something that's 

scary or different 

Mike Koelzer, Host: When I started the podcast, this is like three years ago, everybody has a tendency to say, okay, I'm gonna do a website and then I'm going to line this up and I'm gonna buy this, and all

this kind of 

stuff. 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: what I'm saying. Yes.

Mike Koelzer, Host: And my first show, if people go back and listen to it, you know, it was just a free program on my phone.

I had the idea and like an hour later I was talking to my first guest. And it sounded crappy , but I thought if it's bad, I don't have to put it out. I can dump the show. I haven't, it's my show number one. I can dump it, I can do a lot of different things. It's kind of like a boat, if you steer the boat, but it's not moving, it doesn't mean anything.

You gotta start moving. Even if you're going in the wrong direction, the rudder's gonna work versus 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah.[00:24:00] and I think too, like I'm very, and I try to make my girls be very solution oriented. Like if you see a problem, find a solution. Like I hate when people just dwell on the problem. So I think that's another thing that really gets me too. And actually my five year old's probably one of the best solutions solvers ever

Mike Koelzer, Host: Where did you get that from?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: A hundred percent my grandfather, he was like the most, he was very self spoken. He was very nice. And he was humble 

Mike Koelzer, Host: But he

got the job done

Jena Quinn, PharmD: avoided, he got the job done. 

he 

Mike Koelzer, Host: he was in pharmacy. You had

mentioned 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: he had worked at GlaxoSmithKline. He was part of the team that discovered the Association of Dopamine with Parkinson's. 

and he has like over 150 patents. He wrote all these books, but he was very humble. And so he always instilled in me like, you can be smart, you can be humble, you know, you can be on the, and actually I'm way louder than he is, but he was always someone who always got [00:25:00] things done. and he was not one to make excuses.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: And so I think that's the excuse thing, especially in my children already at like, you know, five or three. I'm like, you know that I'm very quick to call them out. Like, that's an excuse.

Mike Koelzer, Host: General was that all from you being perceptive or did he 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: just, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: That to you?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: no, just perception. Cuz even he never said any of that.

It's a very good perception on your part though, because I might think somebody is, you know, friendly and soft spoken, but I wouldn't take the leap to say they get stuff done. Part of that was the metrics of his 150 patents. Right. You knew he moved along.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: he, and he never talked about that like it took for him to actually,

Mike Koelzer, Host: did you realize he did anything instead of just, you know, a grandpa, you know, buying new life savers?

He was awesome. He taught me a lot of valuable lessons. If you're smart or if you have a skill, someone else doesn't have, he did [00:26:00] over hundreds and hundreds of, elderly people's taxes in his 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: town for free.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You saw that?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, so I saw him doing it because he's like me, like I always like to stay busy.

He liked to keep himself busy, so I always noticed he always gave back. So that was always huge too. But then, he knew how to lead effectively. like he was a no BS man that got a lot of things done because he was always at a director level, wherever he was. But he was very humble.

So I didn't really learn about the death of all the patents and the books until he died and my grandma actually started giving me a lot of his things and I was like, this man's amazing. So he, you know, motivates me even, you know, daily, even from just living in his and reading his books and actually the other day my grandma printed out, had given me his resume.

 There's 11 grandchildren, but it's cute because she gives me, you know, [00:27:00] anything pharmacy related. and so I really cherish that and hold onto obviously all that.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So I take it that your parents are slackers,

if you had to jump the generation, 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: exactly. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Don't they feel like slackers when they hear you talk about your grandpa?

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I know. and so this is my mom, which is, it's, she always inappropriately likes, well, I'm just a nurse, which we know nurses are amazing, but she would see me and my grandfather always commiserate on, you know, like pharmacy and medications and all that stuff. And she and my mom would be like, well, I'm just a nurse.

But it was really sweet when my grandfather was put on hospice, he would only let me dose and give him morphine, so he waited. Until I drove, it was like two and a half hours, three hours. and my mom was wildly offended. She was there and 

She's like, I'm the nurse . 

 But yeah, we always had like, we definitely always had a special bond.

 And [00:28:00] It seems like the lesson that I live with and maybe give to others is the best you can do. People don't know your mental illness. They don't know your sticking points. They don't know, you know, what you've been through and attacks on you and all this. Nobody knows that but you.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So do your best. But do, you know, do, and I think that's the problem is that we all have our fears and this and that, but great men have said it, you might be scared, but do it. And do it dirty, 

it's gonna be dirty, but do it 

despite your fears. 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: is like a perfect example. Like that's why I was laughing when we were talking about like, you know how I implemented, I kind of worked backwards how I got the hours and I realized like, oh crap, I need more staff. And then I'm like, oh my God, how am I gonna get paid for this? and you know what?

I, hopefully I look back and laugh cuz it's just like you figure it out and it's not gonna be perfect. interestingly [00:29:00] enough, like part of my journey has been that I have ocd. I was diagnosed with it postpartum and.

Mike Koelzer, Host: so,

Jena Quinn, PharmD: My favorite quote, actually, I have a tattooed on my body, , 

is getting comfortable and uncomfortable.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Cuz I think that's like a large part of ocd, if you latch onto thoughts, and then you're like, why did I think that? And then you think about it again. And so I kind of just embraced it as like my life mantra of, you know, get, get really comfortable in the uncomfortable and once you get too comfortable then you know, you gotta do something else.

But I think that's how we kind of grow and stretch and I think people are so scared to get out of, you know, like I was at my previous hospital that I just left to start my own business for 14 years. I was there as a student and I was left for a little bit and then came back for eight years. Like I was so comfortable there.

And so, you know, I think it would've been easy just to like continue my journey there on and on, but I was like, I felt like I was [00:30:00] gonna throw up when I quit, because I was like so nervous about it and I had developed such a rapport with my boss, but I'm like, you know, you never get this time back and, time just as we were talking about before goes so quickly.

So I never wanna see like, yeah, I had that x, y, and Z idea, but I never did anything on it. And then I look back and it's like 15 years later and so that would be my biggest fear,

Mike Koelzer, Host: I tell my kids this is the best time. If you have ideas to keep moving, just do 

it because, you know, there's no middle man, 

like there used to be, think of, you know, Justin Bieber who made it just up on his own through YouTube and the list goes on and on about authors who have just been on group things and have pushed their 

Mike Koelzer, Host: stuff.

So there's no middle man and it's so easy. Like in Tim Ferris's book, Four Hour Work Week, he has a part that I liked about AB testing. You know, it's so easy if you have an idea for a business. Put two posts on LinkedIn. You didn't have to buy a Google ad, just put two [00:31:00] posts on LinkedIn and see which one has more attention and say, oh, well maybe that's a better idea than this is.

I mean, you can get thousands and thousands of dollars in market research, which would've cost you that 

20 years ago. You can get that in like the next morning after a post comes out to see if it has any teeth to it, 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: right. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: no excuse really to not move and anxiety. And fear and O c D and even that's not an excuse because I've got some of those.

And you just keep moving. You move through it.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah, I think if you can get through some of those valleys, you know, I think that if anything, you're more, you have more resources and tools 

to push yourself, to get, to just use those tools that you had, to get through those little blips in your mental health to then, you know, create something bigger and better to continue to go.

I think if anything, I always appreciate that I've had, you know, those [00:32:00] journeys postpartum and through high school. That was really tough because then it shows you like, oh, I pushed through that. I can do anything

Mike Koelzer, Host: We had some big family legal stuff like, 15 years ago, but at the time, I wasn't suicidal, but I just felt I was gonna die. There was so much pressure on me.

And at the time I got a psychiatrist, a therapist, ssri, benzodiazepine. I had that. I made it through. And I'm stronger now because I tell you, when I felt like I was going crazy and the ssr, I wasn't doing it for me, I got that prescription of Klonopin and I said, if this doesn't work, I might die.

 I didn't know if it was gonna work. And I knew that the, the pain I was feeling, again, I wasn't suicidal. I just felt like I was gonna die. That pain was so strong. I was afraid to take the Klonopin because I thought, if that doesn't work, that's my last option, I'm gonna die. And so [00:33:00] the fact that then I went through it, and now if I went through something similar, I don't think I would, but I would know I'm gonna make it.

I know the answer to it. And so going through that stuff, it does make you 

stronger and 

more wise. 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah. And I think too, you're like kind of like live life, like, okay, what's the biggest thing I have to, you know, I have to lose, like I can totally get through it and like with this business, I'm like, okay, if it, God forbid it goes horribly or whatever, then I, you know, go back to my old jobs.

Like, I think people don't realistically think like, We catastrophize everything, and then I'm always asked like, well, really, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen? You know, I fail and then I go back to my old job. Like, that's 

okay. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you know, the biggest catastrophe that could happen, that would just have wiped me out

Jena Quinn, PharmD: What

Mike Koelzer, Host: having twins. That would've just sucked. I can't imagine that

Jena Quinn, PharmD: [00:34:00] I don't know. I think you guys would've definitely gotten through it with Ted kids under your belt.

Mike Koelzer, Host: twins would've sucked.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: 10 kids.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I know, but they were individuals.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Oh my God. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: would you like 

to have 

twins? 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: there would be, we talked about outsourcing. I'd be having a night nurse over here helping me. there's 

no, yeah, you really, I feel like that's when you kind of have to, you really have to use other resources for.

Mike Koelzer, Host: you know, twins, and then I'd have to start nursing and stuff, It just would 

not have been pretty

Jena Quinn, PharmD: That's so funny. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I love coaches and things, but it's cool that you're staying in there, you know, giving it your best effort, despite challenges 

 despite having three kids. Thankful that you don't have twins.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I don't have twins. Yeah. So interestingly enough, Mike, I bought my LLC and the next week found out I was pregnant with my third. So I

Mike Koelzer, Host: right? So I was like, oh, well I'm just gonna do it. I'm just gonna 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: see what happens. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, I say Jenna, that there are a [00:35:00] lot of things that are gonna drive us crazy in 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Mm-hmm. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: And if you believe in an afterlife, I don't know, let's say there's one out there. The only thing that's gonna escape this world with you is souls that you have created none of your anxiety or none of your material stuff.

Nothing good or bad is gonna outlast this world 

except souls. And so if you're gonna have something that's driving you bad in life, you might as well have done it instead of, you know, just job crap.

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yeah. No, I agree. I think I'm very much like you. We have so many opportunities like you should. Try to genuinely be happy where you are. Cuz I think there's so many people that aren't in the position too. You know, I loved my job, I loved it.

but not being there for my kids, you know, from the hours of seven to three 30 really ate at me and not having the [00:36:00] flexibility. So it was kind of like a two for one where I was like, oh, these medically complex kids need help and mommy wants to have a remote job. So there you go. Let's make 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: it works. . Some of the local chains have had some problems in the last month, more than they've ever 

Mike Koelzer, Host: had before, 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Yes, I'm very well.

Mike Koelzer, Host: and we're finally getting some customers that like, oh, you know,we live three doors down from you and, you know, my parents knew your grandparents and all this stuff.

It's like, why the hell did it take, like, 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: I know, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you know, a catastrophe at another pharmacy 

to get you here? And I think the issue is people don't want the pressure of making decisions if it's good enough. If life is good enough, you don't want to do something that's gonna be worse because you kick yourself in that.

But there's a lot out there that if you take those chances, some might turn out crappy, but a lot might turn out

Jena Quinn, PharmD: right? I, yeah, I think so too. And [00:37:00] 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, Jenna golly, good having you on. Thank you. 

Jena Quinn, PharmD: Pleasure meeting. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You  will

Jena Quinn, PharmD: you too.  Take

care, Mike. Thank you.