Changing the Culture of Prescriptions | Andrew Aertker & Gavin Buchanan, Co-Founders, PatchRx

Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript is generated using speech-to-text technology and may contain errors or inaccuracies.

Mike Koelzer, Host: [00:00:00] Well, hello, Gavin and Andrew. Hello. Hey Mike. Hey guys, for those who haven't come across you or your business, introduce yourself. Tell the listeners. What we're talking about today. 

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah, so I'm Gavin Buchanan and this is my co-founder Andrew. I'll let him, uh, jump in in a second, but essentially, uh, we've created an adherence solution that's built, uh, for pharmacies, um, in order to help reduce DIR fees, increase patient retention, improve the patient experience with taking a prescription medication and just make sure that the things are running smoothly with pharmacy operations.

Um, and the reason that we started this business, um, and something that we can get to more later, um, in this conversation, uh, is really due to our personal experiences with medication non-adherence, uh, myself, losing a family. To, to not taking his medication, um, and using that experience to create something that should, um, and will help patients, um, manage their medications more properly and put systems in place that allow for real time health interventions to happen, um, and incentivize for people to take their prescriptions correctly.

So that's a little bit about what we're doing. Um, we're launching at several independent pharmacies right now. Um, and that's one of our passions is providing the most value to independent pharmacy and to their patient bases, um, and getting into the hands of, of anyone 

Andrew Aertker: who needs it. Uh, I'm Andrew Aertker, I'm one of the co-founders of PatchRX.

You're 

Mike Koelzer, Host: relatively fresh outta college. Right, right. Correct. And I know that you've got good sales training because when I asked you Gavin about what was going on, you gave an answer. That is the proper answer now for marketing where you don't tell me about your product, I don't give a crap about your product.

That's what people say. I wanna know what benefits you give to me. Right? So you were telling me all about the benefits of what this thing does, but you know what I'm really interested in just. What is this damn thing, you know, because we, this is really cool and we'll get to those benefits. And so I'm, I know I'm making you break your rules because people said, don't, don't tell 'em the product, tell 'em the, you know, the real benefit, but what do you guys got here?

This is like Bluetooth cool stuff, right? On a, on a cap. What is 

Gavin Buchanan: this? When we set out to create something that would improve adherence, uh, we recognized that smart, smart adherence solutions were the future. And when we talked with pharmacists, you know, all over the nation, hundreds of pharmacists during our customer research, we found out that pharmacists had a few needs that would basically determine what kind of solution they would adopt.

And the three major ones were one, it had to be extremely simple and easy to integrate with their workflow. The second is that it had to not disrupt their supply chain and, and the third was that it had to be, uh, extremely cheap. And when we looked at, at the, the landscape of smart adherence solutions that were out there, uh, they didn't fall under any three of those categories.

They replaced some form of the pill bottle cap, or the pill bottle, or introduced a new form of packaging. They weren't necessarily intuitive or easy for new patients to just onboard and understand. And they were also very costly, you know, double digit or triple digit solutions for these, uh, kind of technologies and devices 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I'm imagining.

And I don't know if I have this right, but I'm imagining that some of these were like these things about the size of a big coffee can, that would make the pills kind of come down like a gumball machine and spit 'em out. And this and that, that's probably the one of the expensive ones. And then this goes down to things like.

Packaging and, you know, basically a check mark or maybe some way to text a button to your children that you took the medicine or something. Do I have that right as the two bookends or what am I missing on the more deluxe side that is more expensive than what I'm thinking or. Less than what I had just mentioned there.

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah. So they go all the way up to really complicated, um, multi, multi, um, uh, pharmacy solutions, um, where, you know, it might be, it might be a multi pill sort that, you know, I'm looking at like hero health, uh, or Ellie grid, both of which I think are 30 to $40 a month for a single patient for access to it, larger devices that can handle multiple medications and dispense them.

Um, obviously something that, uh, of interest for, you know, some, uh, an elder who has the money, um, and the wherewithal to use, uh, such a device, but definitely nothing that that would integrate at the pharmacy level. And I think you're right though about the book end to being on one side, you know, kind of, uh, the, the higher end devices, [00:05:00] um, Down to, you know, simple software solutions, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: simple software it's it's technology, but it's at its simplest form of, you know, checking off a spreadsheet or something like that.

Mm-hmm right, right. Exactly. Exactly. The people that are supposed to be in the know it was probably going to be, I imagine like a family member was your idea then to go back to a healthcare worker, whether it's a pharmacist or the doctor, what do you think the best program is? Who should be finding out about this?

so 

Andrew Aertker: for us, I mean, one of the biggest things that we realized very quickly was how fractured this market is in healthcare in general. And so one of the biggest things that we wanted to do is streamline some of those operations between individual parts and individual entities. Um, and so what we saw really was like, you know, when you give patients more accountability, when you give people in their lives, more insight into what's going on with their medications, as well as those that are involved directly in their healthcare, their physicians, their pharmacists, whoever it is, you're gonna see much better results.

And that was one of the biggest things that we tried to do was make sure that all those pieces were connected. Um, and this is the reason why we designed our product the way it was to be easily integrated, at the pharmacy level, to be able to universally fit onto any smart pill or any pill bottle for that matter.

Um, we wanted something that everyone could use and everyone could work with. And to streamline that communication between all these different parts. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Now our listeners are just salivating to try to find out what this is. This is a cap, right? It's not even a cap. It's a sticky thing that goes into the cap as a Bluetooth.

Is that even close? Yeah. Yeah. 

You're 

Gavin Buchanan: Right on, on the money there, Mike it's, you know, what, what we were surprised to find is that when we looked at these solutions, there was nothing that was universally fit for any size pill bottle, no matter where someone got it filled. And so what we created and I'll show it up on my camera for you to see Mike, but it can also be seen on our website or on our LinkedIn page is the patch RX device, which is just a small nickel size device.

That's small enough to fit into the, the pill bottle cap of any size 

Mike Koelzer, Host: pill bottle. Turn that sideways. Gavin too, for me, let me see the edge of it. It's about the size of a quarter, and it's probably about the depth of a turn that again, sideways. It's about. It's about the depth of a, maybe a half inch or three quarter inch.

It would, it would basically fit into a cap and dip down a little bit, maybe into the, into the bottle. 

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah. And I'm gonna show you one from one of our partnered pharmacies up in north, Texas, it just fits just like that. Just on the underside of the pill bottle. It 

Mike Koelzer, Host: just comes down a touch. Some pharmacies will maybe stack tablets rarely, but if sometimes bottles will just fit the tablets and they'll jump on, you know, they'll get up on the table and jump on it to crush the tablets into a bottle.

It's not gonna fit those, but the average fill of a vial, this is gonna easily fit into the vial. Right. 

Gavin Buchanan: And, and just to, to show you, we, we, we did a market review of all the pill violence that were out there and found that this one from Walgreens, uh, was actually the smallest one offered on the, on the pharmacy market.

And you can see I've got one in there. You can't even notice that it's, that it's attached, but once we, as we open it up, it's just, just right there. Right. So it. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It's about a 16, 16, 20 jam. And it looks like it's a reversible top. And you've got that on the side as a safety cap. Does that go on the other side too?

Will it, will it stick onto the top? On the other side, could, 

Gavin Buchanan: could fit on the other side if we 

Mike Koelzer, Host: wanted it too. Absolutely. And I assume those are not throwaway. Those switch with the. Caps 

Gavin Buchanan: so they can be throw away if the patient wants to 

Mike Koelzer, Host: depends how much money you got. Right. But can, let me ask this, can you reuse 'em they can be reused.

Do you reuse 'em by using the same cap or by, can you pull 'em off that cap and put 'em in a new one? 

Gavin Buchanan: So we would assume that, that they could be done, uh, either way. It somewhat depends on what the pharmacy, uh, wants when we're, when we're partnering with them. So the devices last for around 120 to 150 days, you're 

Mike Koelzer, Host: looking at about a three or four month supply.

These aren't gonna be a three year kind of thing. No, 

Gavin Buchanan: no. And they, and they're meant to be at the end of that 90 day fill, um, when they get their next dose, they could either, you know, uh, transfer that cap over. They can throw them away there, the patient can throw away their bottle with our device in it.

Uh, they're gonna get, they're gonna get a new one on the new bottle. Um, just because they're cheap enough, small enough to, to be like 

Mike Koelzer, Host: that. They're gonna get a new one because they've signed up. For the program or whatever exactly. Right. Wow. And I saw a QR code on the bottom of that. 

Gavin Buchanan: Yep. So the, the way they add a medication and we're working on making this more simplistic every day, but, um, the, the way they add, uh, a medication is they just take a picture of their prescription label, pulls all the relevant information from it.

And then they scan that QR code and it matches that medication. And it's dosing time with, with that [00:10:00] device. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Very interesting. The pharmacist is putting on basically a generic QR code, but then the patient themself is taking a picture of the label and then a picture of the QR code. And, and I imagine it's just kind of like taking a picture of a check.

You know, you take a picture of the front and the back and until you do both, you haven't matched them up Bluetooth, slow energy. And does that have a battery inside of it? It does. Like one of those watch battery kind of things or something simpler than that. Exactly. Just a coin cell. Tell me about intellectual property and.

Also tell me about how specific you needed to get to get that intellectual property. So, for example, I imagine you're probably not just able to say a cool little device that helps people take their medicine better. You know, you probably had to get something more specific for that, for your patent. And so on.

Give me some history 

Andrew Aertker: on that. So far we've filed four patents on our device. Um, and that kind of range, obviously we can't go into too much depth on some of the ones that haven't been approved yet, but on the patents that have been cleared, um, there's a couple different pieces that are really kind of.

Uh, what makes it really differentiable from our competition? What makes it really special in this marketplace in particular? Um, one of the biggest things is just kind of the mechanical apparatus of it. Uh, we use a myriad of different light sensors and some of these different pieces to actually judge whether the cap's being taken off.

Um, we also judge motion and these other pieces and kind of use the spikes in these different parameters to actually judge whether, um, the cap is being taken off in that manner. Uh, in that proper time or dosing window, one of the big things that we did very early on in this process was, uh, make some design iterations on different ways of understanding whether a patient is taking their medication or not.

And so just to give you a little bit of history, um, when Gavin and I started this thing, we were both college freshmen. And so we were very early on in our college careers and we had tons of free time, uh, if you have school, but you have so much free time. And so Gavin and I really just spent the first semester two semesters of college, uh, really in the library for six to eight hours a day, kind of working on different iterations and, and playing with different models, learning how to do CAD and learning different electrical engineering techniques and all these different pieces.

And what we kind of came up with was just a myriad of different designs of how this thing could actually work. Um, our first model was actually called the module. Uh, or no, sorry. Uh, the no overdose, no overdose module. And, um, we designed it really kind of more as a system, a technique and an actual, uh, twisting kind of motion.

There is a gumball technique kind of like what you mentioned before. Uh, but we iterated on it and we saw, as Gavin said, the different needs in the industry of, you know, making something that is universal, making something that fit with every pill bottle that was easy. That was understandable by every different kind of patient demographic.

And that's kind of how we iterated and landed on the model that we have currently. But one of the biggest things that we did was look at the IP that's surrounding our product. What else is out there and how can we iterate on these different pieces that are already out there? And when we first looked at the IP landscape for our device, we saw that it was really wide open.

Uh, I mean, there was so much space around this niche area of designing this universally fit. Pill bottle cap that we decided to just go for. And so we went for it, we filed several patents in that area. We've got one approved last year, uh, kind of continuing to file continuation patents and everything.

But the primary patents are really on, you know, a lot of these different integral sensors and these kinds of motions and inner workings of the actual device, as well as the communication mechanism and the data that we stream from it back to the patient and allow that communication, that direct communication.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Were you guys buddies before you 

Andrew Aertker: got to college? No, we, uh, we met the first, uh, first two weeks of college. We were, uh, across the dorm hall from one another. Now Gavin, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Sometimes I'll talk to people and because I know you've got a lot of sales training already or marketing training, I can tell a lot of times they'll also say you gotta bring all this stuff back to a story.

Was it also like, Hey. Andrew. We're gonna start a business. Hey, let's do these 10 things. Oh no. These five things. Oh no, let's do it on this one thing. And then, you know, come to think about it. My grandpa had a problem with this. Is that kind of how it went, that you guys wanted to start a business or, or was this truly like.

Hey, Andrew. My grandpa's having a hard time. I wish I could have helped him. 

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah, it was. Um, I think it was more of, of the, the second way actually. Um, we were, you know, funny enough, uh, both placed in, in the entrepreneurship hall at Trinity university. And on our first night, I thought you're gonna 

Mike Koelzer, Host: say solitary confinement or something like.

Like you guys got in trouble 

Gavin Buchanan: right away. No, we, we were in the entrepreneurship [00:15:00] hall and so I, you know, with my engineering background and Andrew with his software development background, funny enough, hadn't really, um, heard much about entrepreneurship, Paul, um, nor had I, um, even been, been familiar with entrepreneurship, just as a concept.

Um, I didn't really know what it meant to run a business, but they told us on the first night that we should start thinking. Problems that we can solve, um, that, that might be necessary and needed with our skill set. And, you know, I had, uh, just, just about a month earlier, my grandfather had passed away suddenly.

Um, sorry to hear that. Thanks. It was, it was one of those things that was, um, shocking. Um, and, uh, just, just came outta nowhere. Um, you know, he was still really healthy and active, but one day forgot his heart medication and went out for a walk. Oh really? Yeah. And then went out for a walk and his heart failed.

And by the time he was found, it was too late and it was one of those, uh, things that revealed what seemed like a critical failing in the healthcare system in the sense that we put out something like. 6 billion prescriptions every year, many of which are life saving or life changing. And yet once we put them in the hands of the patient, we provide very little in the way for them to manage the medication for them to track their doses and practically nothing in the way of a real time health intervention in the cases they miss a dose or if they overdose.

So came into Trinity. And as of, I think it was August and right, like two weeks before that, um, the president had announced the opioid crisis as an official national emergency. And so it was, you know, right in the public awareness of what was going on. And so when we were told that first night to start thinking about ideas, that we might be able to turn into, uh, forces for social good.

Maybe turn into a business. Um, you know, I talked with Andrew later that night and said, you know, I've got an issue that I think we could pretty easily solve. Um, just because it doesn't look like there are many that are trying to meaningfully solve the issue and provide a solution. So, um, we just started putting our heads together.

Um, we actually ended up, um, trying not to try not to, to pursue it in, in the entrepreneurship hall as a project because we wanted to work on it on our own time. Um, just, you know, as part of our own efforts. Um, and you know, it ended up being one of those things that Andrew can talk a little bit more about, but he ended up finding his own personal reason for why, you know, non-adherence was important to his life.

Um, that was greater than just our, our kind of combined efforts of trying to solve what felt like a big problem. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Would you have been stifled if you did it through that program, was it kind of like American idol where they would've liked to own part of it or something? Why didn't you wanna do it through the program?

Gavin Buchanan: I think, cuz it just moved too slowly. Um, we also had to create a team of people that were more than just. Myself and Andrew, and it was one of those things that we felt convicted to, to go and, and solve the problem on our own accord. And we didn't wanna move at the pace that the class was moving.

So we were wanting to just go, you know, kind of full force and, and full speed ahead, uh, on the project. Um, and by the time the class is over, uh, and it was a one hour class. So it wasn't a huge commitment. So most people had just created a simple pitch deck with some concept art of what they might wanna make.

Whereas we had already, you know, created a fir uh, I think two iterations of prototypes and devices. Um, and we're already starting the process of trying to file up patents. So, um, we were thankfully, um, able to make a lot more progress. You know, doing it, um, ourselves and our spare time. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: So now, was it just a freak that you guys were in the same dorm because you were studying different paths in college, right?

You wouldn't have run into each other during class at all? 

Andrew Aertker: No, I don't actually think we ever even had a class together. So it was really a random thing. Did 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you know you were going into this entrepreneur 

Andrew Aertker: hall? Neither of us did. No. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: No. You're lucky they didn't put you in the ballet hall or something like that.

You guys should have found out about this. Right. Someone didn't do enough homework about school. What project did you come up with for your class then? 

Andrew Aertker: So we, we ended up using this as the, we ended up using this. Yeah. You just hid part of it or we just did it on our own time and, and also put it into the classwork as well.

And, uh, one of the great things I think that Trinity university actually did for us was actually give us and provide us some resources very early on in terms of, um, actually bringing this to fruition in a sense there's a, a competition called the Stamberg venture competition, which they run every. Um, and it allows different student ventures to kind of come up and participate and, and, uh, compete for a prize.

The first of which is a $5,000 prize for your team and then a $25,000 prize. And we were able to go through both rounds of that and won a good chunk of money from that to kind of put us through, um, and get some kind of prototype developed. We really set into this and full steam ahead [00:20:00] really, um, kind of our second years in, at Trinity, really kind of developing prototypes, developing iterations of it and trying to find a niche that worked clinical trials was obviously one that we kind of looked at first and kind of iterated on that and went to pharmacy.

Um, and at the end of 2019, uh, I was diagnosed with stage two append decile cancer. Wow. Um, which was a really interesting turn of events and, uh, really ruined my Christmas break too. But , um, it was really a little bit of a blessing in disguise. Luckily I'm on the other side of it to the, um, you know, knock on wood, but.

You know, it's really interesting when you're diagnosed with something like cancer. Um, there's a lot of things that kind of just come into the highlights of your life. And so you kind of see things in, in full, full clarity. Um, and I think with Gavin and I D diving deeper into healthcare and really kind of understanding the different parts that we could influence being diagnosed with cancer, uh, kind of allowed me to see what it meant to be.

Adherent to medication, what it means to be non-adherent to medication when it comes to something like oncology, which is so crucial for that, for that entire field. I 

Mike Koelzer, Host: wish you all the best on that. Of course, boy. Thank 

Andrew Aertker: you. Yeah, no, I mean, it's, uh, luckily, like I said, um, I had a couple major surgeries and have since been, um, on the up and up, but, um, it really was kind of an experience that really highlighted how important the work we were doing was, um, when you start to talk to doctors and you are constantly at MD Anderson, you know, every couple months or so, um, you start to just be a, when you're around the industry, you start to see kind of all the different pieces in all the streamline of communication and how these different pieces work.

And it allowed me to really see and, and go back and work with Gavin on, on different ideas and concepts for how we could make our service. Just that much better to how we could really influence this entire industry in really streamlining communication for proper medication management. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: At what point did you feel that you were getting good feedback and you weren't just blowing smoke to each other?

I mean, I might have this good idea at home for my wife, but I've got this story going, you know, a 

hundred miles an hour in my head because I'm afraid to even bring it up. Cause I know that it's got so many holes in it that it's not gonna go anywhere. So I just enjoy my time as, as an imagination, you know, as my little thoughts, I know it's not gonna go anywhere, but how quickly did you guys get this in front of a patient, a pharmacist or a doctor and say, is this anything?

And did you get any people like that? Were so negative that it sort of lets you down or did you get positive 

Gavin Buchanan: feedback? Uh, I'll speak from, from the initial point of view, which was the research that we did, which, um, a lot of people told us that it was a saturated market, that there were a lot of adherent solutions that had, had made and were out there, um, over the last couple of decades.

But, um, as. You know, 2019, the average national adherence was still 50%, um, which was estimated to cause 150,000 deaths, uh, 2 million hospitalizations and something like half a trillion dollars of cost of the healthcare industry. And so, you know, with that, it seemed like the problem was far from being solved, especially in a meaningful way.

And then when we started talking with pharmacists and we learned about how, you know, they struggle with, with adherence themselves and, you know, when they struggle with adherence, it is often in the form of D fees and those D fees have grown over the last decade over 45000%. And they've become, you know, a force that's, uh, causing pharmacies across the country to go into the red, um, or go out of 

Mike Koelzer, Host: business patients aren't compliant and thus the numbers back to the insurers.

It Doesn't look good to say that. Mrs. Smith is only getting her 30 day medicine every 43 days or something like that. Exactly, 

Gavin Buchanan: exactly. And so it was really once we started talking with pharmacists and, and saying, you know, can we create something that's low cost enough that we can launch it at your pharmacy?

You can provide it to your patients for free. It provides all these benefits, uh, and incentives for the patient to use. And then, uh, with that increase, increase average adherence and then lower those D IR fees and increase, you know, the, the amount of refills per year, which as, you know, as you can imagine, would increase, uh, prescription revenue, um, and just make the life of the pharmacist a bit easier, provide them with another form of contactless care and remote patient monitoring, um, that gives them ease that their patient base is doing well.

And so I think it was, you know, once we. You know, talking with, with pharmacists. And as Andrew mentioned, you know, our first, our first go at this, our first solution, which we took to market in 2019 was, um, patch trials, a clinical research solution for principal investigators to improve adherence within the [00:25:00] clinical research that they were doing.

Um, and that was, that felt like a great place to be. Uh, but 

Mike Koelzer, Host: these are people that are doing like drug tests and for those drug tests, it was so important to know, wait a minute, first, let's find out if these people have actually taken this to then put it into our data to find out if it's good information to put into our studies.

Their 

Gavin Buchanan: research. Right, exactly. Um, but I think, you know, Andrew and I were, were much more, um, you know, fulfilled and interested when, when we were talking with the struggles that that pharmacies are undergoing, um, it was an area that, that, you know, come January of, of 20, 20, uh, almost a year ago. We didn't know a whole lot about this field and this world.

Um, and so we were absolutely blown away when we started talking and having conversations with pharmacists. All over right. Independent pharmacists, retail, pharmacists, uh, specialty pharmacists, and hearing the, the amount of work that they were doing on a weekly basis, the amount of effort, um, and just blood, sweat, and tears that they, that they would put in for their patients that seems to overwhelmingly go unnoticed.

Right. We find that, you know, pharmacists are usually put last when thought of, uh, when, when people think of primary care providers. And yet we think that the work that they're doing is absolutely essential and needed. And so once we had those conversations, we realized there was a big problem that we could help, um, bring that issue of non-adherence and solve it through a way that made the most sense for our pharmacy partners.

Uh, that that's when we, we felt really, uh, great that, that what we were, you know, developing, um, as of last year was, was something that, that was going to make a difference, um, and help help, you know, launch at, uh, you know, patient, uh, patients all over the country and to pharmacies that, that need a solution like, like this.

Mike Koelzer, Host: I always say that to some of the guys or gals on my team, especially when sometimes business might be competitive or down or whatever. And it's like, there's no lack of sick people dying. You know? I mean, like the top killer is, you know, heart disease or cancer. And so people can say like, there's no room for certain healthcare people, but it's like, wait a minute.

The most important thing to most people is life and health and the top killers are health and lifestyle. So there's gotta be room for it. Now, maybe this one idea isn't what it is, but there's certainly room for it. 

Gavin Buchanan: Right. And, and I think that that validation continued when we, um, got our first MVP, um, you know, after about six, um, six months of development in July and August, we had, we had our.

Uh, MVP ready to go. Um, we partnered with what's our, uh, minimum viable product. So it's basically like the first iteration of the solution that we were ready to actually test in the market with real patients at a real pharmacy. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: The first model that works, it might not be as small as you want it, or as long a battery or whatever, but it's something that at least can get out there.

Exactly. But let me backup just a second, guys. Tell me about the designing, the physical designing of this outside of the battery and the, you know, wiring and stuff. I wanna learn a little bit more about the plastic of this. It's gonna be so high by so round. Did you have to go through the whole. Tool and die thing, or are these parts that were already out in the market that you kind of could snap together, like, you know, Legos or something?

Andrew Aertker: Yeah. So I mean, a lot of what we did was just based around obviously market research is the number one step in designing any product. Um, and so probably the, the first thing that we did was just evaluate all the different pill bottles on the market and said, okay, what, what do we need to do? To be entirely universal.

That was our first priority. And from there then we actually kind of designed some of the parts we knew kind of what the features needed to be and how it needed to work. But the primary focus of it was can we make it universal? So that needed to be a parameter for any parts that we put inside of it.

It's the reason why we selected the chips. It's the reason why we selected the battery that we use, um, all the different parts that were selected for that very reason. Uh, but then once we got into the tooling and all the kind of manufacturing of the PCBs, we went outside for that. And, uh, we now work, work with a great engineering firm now in Austin called product works in Novatech.

Um, and they do all of our electrical and mechanical engineering for. As 

Gavin Buchanan: I kind of mentioned earlier, we found the smallest pill bottle that was offered on the market, measured its dimensions and said, okay, we need to make it small enough to fit comfortably inside of this, which means it should fit comfortably inside of any pill bottle at any pharmacy.

Um, and then the second was that we needed a battery that would ensure that we could have at least 90 days, right. Since the average, um, or the most prescribed quantity is a 90 day fill. So it had to last for at least 90 days. And the [00:30:00] last thing is that it had to be as low cost as possible. So looking to get closer to that single dollar margin right.

Per, per device, and that was kind of the three constraints and goals that, that we shot for and have, you know, uh, succeeded on, um, you know, through, through development. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: I see. So when you guys send this out, I have a friend that makes bird feeders. And for him, it was very integral to say, I'm going to design this because I want this angle to be just like this and stuff.

You guys were more of the things that you mentioned, Gavin, you said, Hey, we're gonna hire this firm. You know, it's gotta fit inside this. It's gotta fit a battery. It's gotta fit this. We're not the pros on how this snaps together. Or is it one piece or is it a, this or that? And it's gotta be cheap. So you take it and kind of go with this, that, this sounds like that was closer than you guys figuring out the dimensions on your own, you know, you gave them kind of parameters.

Andrew Aertker: And I think that's really almost a theme in a lot of the stuff that we've done, which was, you know, coming kind of fresh outta college or very young in our business careers. Um, one of the biggest things that we've learned is that. Um, if you work with people who are you work with, a lot of people who are far more educated in their fields than you are, that's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: everybody for me, 

Andrew Aertker: exactly for us too.

Um, and if you can utilize their background, their expertise in a way that's much more efficient, that's just gonna work out so much better for everyone involved. And so whether it's engineering or whether it's healthcare or whatever it is, uh, we just try and pull as much information from as many people as possible and use that to our advantage.

So, um, that has been a constant theme for 

Mike Koelzer, Host: us. A lot of people get this wrong with entrepreneurs. They think that entrepreneurs are. You know, out there Cowboys and taking risks and things like that. And, but really a lot of entrepreneurs are really studying the data and all that kind of thing, and trying to keep the risk as low as they can.

Did you have any point though, of kind of, oh, You know, when you think of like med students, I think like after three years they call 'em in and they say, this is your point of no return. If you keep going to med school, now you're at the point where if you fail, you'll never be able to pay this off or something.

What was your guys' biggest point of saying, do you really want to do this? Was there a point of that or has it just been a bunch of little steps all along? 

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah, I would say for, for me, Mike, at least, uh, that, that was probably, um, last year, right? Our. Manufacturer, um, that we had, um, initially was, was closed due to COVID, um, in January, um, you know, we, so we didn't really have the ability to produce a product.

Um, we were, um, in the midst of, of a small, um, legal issue and we were also, um, you know, in our last semester, and it was one of those things where it's like, if we continue like this, um, you know, we either forego, um, you know, doing the, the formal job search and having something lined up and going out into the, um, you know, in, into a field or continuing with education, or we continue with this.

And I think for us, it was, um, it wasn't a hard decision to make, especially given that, you know, we, we knew what it was, that, that, that we were trying to build and had the conviction to do it. Um, but it definitely was, um, You know, the point of, of no return. Um, and we had a conversation just to say, like, listen, we can, um, kind of pivot into this next solution, patch, RX, develop something meaningful for pharmacies and for patients all over the country and try to do it during a global pandemic, um, you know, or we could, you know, stop here and, and, you know, pause and, uh, just finish college, go out and get a job and, um, you know, do things, you know, kind of our own way.

Um, but I think we were both committed enough and, and so involved at that point that, that we, um, were full steam ahead. It wasn't really that difficult of a decision to make, um, for us. So 

Mike Koelzer, Host: did you guys both graduate college or. Uh, 

Andrew Aertker: I have not, no, I have, uh, I have actually a semester left of 

Mike Koelzer, Host: college. Kevin, did you graduate?

Gavin Buchanan: I did. I did. I was able to graduate in may 20, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: 20, Andrew. Are you going back or are you taking time off for this? 

Andrew Aertker: Uh, I'm taking time off. Um, and 

Mike Koelzer, Host: We'll see, that's better for the movie. right. And did you at least do some of this in 

Andrew Aertker: your garage? We did most of this either in a dorm room or any space that we could find dorm room 

Mike Koelzer, Host: works too.

it's gotta be a dorm room or a garage, so, all right. I'm just going with this. What legal stuff did you run into? 

Andrew Aertker: So one of our early mentors, um, At patch was, uh, one of the, a board member at Trinity, actually, Doug Conny, yours 

Mike Koelzer, Host: patch is the name of the company that you put together then to flow through with this that's 

Andrew Aertker: correct?

Yep. Yeah, yeah. Patch. Yeah. And so one of our, one of, kind of our early mentors, he ran an engineering firm. [00:35:00] Um, and we started working with them on the first iteration of our product. Um, started developing things with them and, and had a good working relationship with them. And then, um, I guess around last year, last summer, uh, we were, uh, made aware that they were starting to develop their own smart pill bottle cap in some regard.

And, um, we were a little taken aback by it and, um, tried to really actually the first kind of, um, idea that we had was when maybe we can find a way to work together on this. Um, you know, I think one of the biggest things that Gavin and I have kept all along is really this. perspective on how we can really help the most patients.

And it sounds a little bit corny at times, but at the same point, um, can we get this product out faster? Can we get this product out and make it better? So that was our kind of first judgment was, you know, maybe we can work with these guys and, and figure out a way to work together on this in some capacity.

And, uh, quickly realized that that was not maybe the full intention from the other party. Um, and so we kind of went on this back and forth kind of deal, um, in, I guess, the fall of 2019. And then at the end of the year, um, it was expressed that, uh, we would not be able to kind of, you know, retain some of the technology that we had developed on our own.

And I obviously can't get into too many of the details of these things, but, um, it. A real hurdle for us. It would've made it nearly impossible for us to continue developing anything on our product or any of the IP, any of the product that we had spent a year and a half researching and developing, we would no longer be able to do it 

Mike Koelzer, Host: because they pretended I can't use bunny quotes here, but they kind of pretended that they came up with it.

And then they got some patent that was maybe a little bit more specific than yours was or something 

Andrew Aertker: they had just retained some of the product. That's really all I can say on 

Mike Koelzer, Host: it. They said, Hey, this is our stuff. This isn't your stuff. This is our 

Andrew Aertker: stuff. Correct. And so we were not able to move forward.

And so in December of, um, of 2019, we submitted a couple pieces, legal pieces to them and said, Hey, we need our stuff back or we're gonna take some legal action. And they dismissed it in a manner that was a little bit. Um, tough for us to see. And so we ended up filing a federal lawsuit in bear county, in San Antonio, uh, against them and their company.

Um, and you know, it's just one of those things that I think companies just tend to go through. Sometimes. Unfortunately, startups tend to go through it more often than others and, uh, we ended up. You know, things end up working out in our favor and, uh, we were able to continue working on our product and we've retained all the necessary materials that we need to have to continue.

But, um, you know, for a startup like ours, especially with us being so young, it really felt like we were taking advantage of it completely. And that is such a disheartening thing to, to feel and to get from someone who really mentored us really early on. Um, so that was, it was a tough go. And for myself and Gavin, it took, you know, a lot of energy and a lot of time out of our day.

And we had to, you know, pause working out a lot of our product to just deal with the lawsuit. Um, so it was tough from that standpoint, obviously lawsuits are in not, uh, you know, not a cheap thing to go through as well. So obviously it takes a lot outta our funding as well. But, um, you know, I think it's one of the biggest things that we've had to do and to get through it is just such.

Such a great thing. In some ways, it just allows you to see how much passion you have for the work that you're doing, and allows you to see how much interest you have in it. And to go through that and come out on the other side with full force and ready to go. I mean, we have pushed so hard since then to get a product out and develop more IP and more safety and be better at our contracts and everything from now on.

Um, it has made us better in every capacity I think. And it's good for the movie 

Mike Koelzer, Host: and it's great for the movie. It's great for the movie. We set this podcast up a few months ago and there were a couple times where you guys had to postpone it and every time you did, I smiled. I said, that's great. You know, because it was a postponement of, Hey, we're traveling to, you know, so, and so we're giving a pitch on this or, you know, we just got picked up by a couple pharmacies, so we're going to meet or something like that.

So I'd reply to you, I'd say wonderful. You know, keep it going. We'll talk eventually. When was the first time, when was it? And what was it that you guys did? You know, this stuff's great on paper. It's great. When the, when the study wants to use it. And, and it's great when people say this is cool and your, and your parents say good job, you know, that's all cool.

But when was the first time where you made either. Investors or like you sold this or someone put an order in, I'm not even sure if we're there yet. Have you had any times where you're, you know, turned green yet? 

Gavin Buchanan: When we created the MVP, um, in, in August, we were thankful, uh, to [00:40:00] find, um, uh, Brandon Allen, uh, the owner of Allen pharmacy up in north Texas.

Um, his pharmacy is right across the street from where I went to high school, which is why I wanted to reach out to his pharmacy. And, um, he was super excited about the potential of the technology and what we were creating and said, let's do a pilot study. So we decided to put all of our, um, we only had like 50 or so manufactured units at that point, but decided to put all of them, um, on prescriptions at his pharmacy, um, on, uh, some oral anti-diabetics, um, in particular to do a pilot study, uh, for 90 days, starting in early September.

And that was when we got a lot of the validation because we launched over there. I trained his pharmacy staff, we got to sit behind the counter and see patients and how easy it was for them to set it up and, and how easy it was for the pharmacist to understand as well. Um, it was so, um, so quick and easy, uh, as far as like the setup process that Brandon Allen actually decided to invest in, in our company.

So it's one of those, um, things. You know, we're, it's kinda the ultimate validation, right? When, when someone who owns a pharmacy and is a pharmacist sees the value in a store and then decides to, you know, be a part of the company, um, in that manner. So, uh, that was, uh, kind of the, the ultimate validation for us.

And then, um, as we progressed in that pilot setting, we saw the results, uh, being able to transform the adherence, uh, of these particular patients from 70 or 80%, all the way above 90% adherent on, on their medications. Um, it showed us that we were creating something that was intuitive, that people were using.

Um, and then, um, it was just a question of how, how we could, you know, continue that success at other pharmacies. That's what we've been up to, you know, and, and part of the reason why we postponed was, um, to, to continue raising, uh, this round of investment, um, we've raised with, uh, a lot of pharmacists and, and other independent pharmacy owners.

Um, who've similarly said that, that, you know, the technology that we're creating has, you know, transformative power, um, and, and might be able to really help, uh, pharmacy take the next step forward. And then the other is just getting ready for, for the launches we have, um, right now, uh, six or seven pharmacies, uh, uh, on deck that we're gonna be launching to, uh, this week and next week and a health system that we're launching to, and then a variety of other avenues that we'll be launching to in later February and throughout kind of the rest of this, of this first quarter of, of 2021.

So, um, been, been super, super busy, getting everything prepared, getting the logistics set up, um, and having the supply chain ready, but it's been, um, it's been super exciting. To say the least. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Your professional friend that you grew up across the street from, and so on. Would that be the proverbial dollar that you framed?

Was that your first real money coming 

Gavin Buchanan: in? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Wow. That's really cool. As far as the business goes, when you say people invest, are they investing in a percentage of the business? Are they investing just as loans that you're gonna pay back to them? How do you go about that? We raise 

Andrew Aertker: all on kind of equity deals and the reason for that, and primarily what Gavin was talking about.

A lot of this round has been based in healthcare. We've raised from a lot of angels and healthcare, uh, a lot of institutional investors in healthcare, and then even independent pharmacists and, and community pharmacists. The reason for doing that is really just to build our business with the people who are involved in the business.

And, uh, when you have people engaged that are community pharmacists and the people that care about advancing Pharmac. Um, you see a lot better engagement, you see a lot better products coming out. And so that's what we've done. And the people that we've involved in the company have been phenomenal in the kind of understanding of what we're doing, how we're doing it and how to make it better.

Um, and that's been absolutely crucial in the development. That's almost 

Mike Koelzer, Host: like stock they're buying in it. It's not public stock. So it's a percentage of the business. And it probably took a hell lot of time for you guys to set up what that meant for them. And they get so much either dividends or so much percentage back or something like that.

Yeah. And I can see the reason for that too, because especially as you guys, as sort of outsiders to the medical place, if you're getting people involved with some equity, especially outside of your field, it seems like a, it seems like a decent move. It's one thing, if you were already, pharmacists were already healthcare workers and came and that's part of your story, but now coming in, I can see where equity could help with that.

Well, let me ask this. You probably don't didn't want to though, right? I mean, if you, if it was self-funded you probably don't wanna get stuff away, right. You wouldn't have gone out looking for equity just to get people involved. The number one reason was to get some money to get this going, 

Andrew Aertker: right? Yeah, exactly.

I mean, with any [00:45:00] startup, the funding and the, the first dollars in, uh, however much you raise in the kind of initial rounds, um, it's so crucial to the development of the product and the development of the team, too. Uh, once you build out a good team and you have the capital raise to actually build a product and build all logistics of a supply chain, um, things kind of work in order.

And as long as you're getting good feedback and, and developing it properly 

Mike Koelzer, Host: right away, if this thing takes off, you gotta have that money input because you guys, as, as starving college students, you don't have it and you've gotta have money to get these initial orders out and, and the right people on board with patch, right?

Yeah, exactly. Speaking of that then, is it just you two 

Andrew Aertker: guys? Um, no, we actually have a decently sized team, obviously it's growing just about every day as well. Um, especially as we kind of continue to launch into pharmacies, we continue to need more, uh, development, help and engineering expertise in whatever it is.

So Gavin and I are the only executives at the moment. Um, but we've got, I think, six full-time members now and, um, about 10 advisors and a couple people on, I think, four or five people on kind of independent contractor agreements with us working part-time and, um, And then, yeah, just kind of a myriad of other individuals who are involved in some capacity.

Um, but like I said, we're bringing new people onto the team. We've got a couple new executives actually coming onto the team in February, um, that we're super excited about. And, um, so yeah, I mean, it's just constantly kind of building out the team to try and develop a better product. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Tell me about the six that you have.

They're not warehouse workers yet. What kind of positions are those? For example? 

Andrew Aertker: Yeah, primarily in software development engineering, um, one in business development and then, uh, the rest are engineers and software developers. And then we've got a couple part-time people in software development as well.

Mike Koelzer, Host: You said you have an executive, you think coming on, what role is that gonna be? 

Andrew Aertker: Uh, it will be somewhere on the, in the sea level. Um, that is still kind of in the process of getting worked out the kind of details of that. But, um, but yeah, we plan on bringing her on in, uh, in some capacity at, at the sea level or, um, kind of that, that area.

Mike Koelzer, Host: The three of you spending more time thinking and planning were the six that you have, maybe they're planning, but not up at the 30 or 50,000 feet level, they're down doing things that you kind of tell them where you want to go, but this executive would be more thinking strategically with you down the road.

Andrew Aertker: Yeah, exactly. And so I think one of the big things that, you know, we're kind of moving into this space that we're kind of moving into is working with health insurance plans and working with PBMs, uh, to engage them at a, a reimbursement level that's beneficial for the pharmacy and the patient. And when you haven't been in healthcare for that long, um, the connections just aren't there.

And so that's kind of where we are bringing other individuals and executives on to kind of advance those strategic partnerships. Um, and we work primarily more on the integration pieces of taking that, you know, 30,000 foot view and taking it in and saying, okay, how can we actually use that to build a product that, that suffices all these different areas and works for all these different entities?

Mike Koelzer, Host: if a pharmacist is hearing this right now, and they're saying, golly, that really sounds cool. When should they be calling you? Or what should they be waiting for if they want to get their pharmacy going on this, or will that even be available for them? We 

Andrew Aertker: just opened up really two weeks ago for full, full fledged launches.

Um, like Evan said, we're launching, uh, three pharmacies this week. We've got another one next week. We've got a big health system coming up in a couple weeks. Um, and then pharmacies rolling out all through February too. So, um, you know, one of the things that actually we've been, uh, working on is really trying to find the best innovative partners in pharmacy to work with.

And that's been a big thing that Gavin has worked on. A ton on is just figuring out which partners we want to go forward with and which partners are gonna give us the best feedback to make our product just that much better. Uh, but yeah, we're open and, and running full-fledged, um, in a lot of pharmacies now.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So gimme an example of like, what are people buying? How would they roll it out to their customers? Would the customer pay for it? Does the customer actually do the scanning and, and this and that. And I imagine it's a, uh, a cell phone app or something like. 

Gavin Buchanan: The way that we launch it to them is, first we roll out, um, the software.

And so the software is, is a mobile app, um, that, that the patients can use to, um, add those medications to manage them. Uh, some other things that the mobile app does is, uh, allows them to add their loved ones and other primary care providers to their medication journey. And they'll get notifications when the patient's missed a dose.

We also have a rewards functionality that allows for the patient to get financially, uh, financially incentivized, to take their medications properly and get rewarded every time they take their dose on time, and they have the ability to refill, uh, through, through our app. Um, they can order that refill directly to their pharmacy.[00:50:00] 

Um, and then at the pharmacy level, we provide them with a web portal that allows for the pharmacists to see all of that individualized adherence data in real time for any of their patients enrolled in Petre and get notifications when a patient, um, has missed a dose, if they've overdosed. And needs to get a real time health intervention, as well as, being able to see those refill orders, um, or any communication that the patient has through the app.

So, um, we launch, we launch that and then, and then we just add the devices, uh, to that plan. And, um, you know, let's say they've got, uh, really low, uh, PDC, really low adherence on, on their oral anti-diabetics or their anti pretensive, maybe it's on their cholesterol medication. We would just see how many patients and, uh, they have on those medications, how many scripts are filled.

And then that would determine how many devices we wanna watch, um, to, to that pharmacy to help, uh, bolster and improve the adherence on, on those medications, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: devices, meaning how many cap things you would actually send them. Yes. 

Gavin Buchanan: So how many patch caps do we send them? Um, and then, uh, we, we bolster the adherence of that patient population on that medication or that demographic, um, if they wanna do a full rollout, uh, they absolutely could.

Um, but that's, that's what we wanna provide them. And so, um, just for the initial setup, um, we're actually working right now, um, to have a reimbursement strategy so that, uh, the, the pharmacist can actually file a claim, um, through us, uh, saying that, that, you know, what we provided them is a remote patient monitoring solution.

So, um, as we get that. Up and running. And also we have a, a, a claims, uh, process for, um, the, the interventions that they can provide through the web app. So when they get, when they get that notification that a patient has missed a dose, and then they respond to that by providing a real time health intervention, um, with that patient, they can also process that.

And it's kind of in that medication therapy management or MTM space. And so what we wanna provide, uh, is something that reimburses the, the, the pharmacist for the work that they're doing, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: You would then send that to the insurance or the PBM or something, and then they would then reimburse the people somehow or something like that.

That money's coming from someone else, whoever the original payer was or something 

Gavin Buchanan: exactly. And that, and that's something that we're actually working with a couple of companies right now on, on getting that process, um, to be, to be quick and, and easy. And, and if we can get, um, those reimbursements just right, um, the, the solution will actually pay for itself.

So, um, we provide it to the pharmacy. The pharmacy provides it free or at no charge to their patients. That's completely up to them though, if they want to, to charge their patients, they totally can. But at the price that we're setting it at, most pharmacies are actually, um, interested in providing it totally free to their patients because they can cover the cost.

And then once we get the reimbursements in place, um, then the cost will pay for itself and the pharmacy will now have access to a technology and a software that's gonna let them, um, provide a real and unique value to their patients, um, at no cost. Right? So that's, that's kind of our strategy and, and where we're going 

Mike Koelzer, Host: with it.

You guys spoke about increasing the, um, adherence and so on. And my question is like, yeah, but what are we comparing this to? Are we comparing this to what, you know? Because like, how do they even know these adherence numbers to begin with? Do they call people up and say, how many are left or are they getting it from the pharmacist?

Is there enough data out there that your adherence is really measuring up against something that's so nebulous? Like what is adherence? You know what I mean? 

Gavin Buchanan: In essence, um, PDC proportions of days covered is, is the, the industry accepted, uh, measure for understanding adherence. And essentially what PDC does is measure the number of gap days between when someone should get their refill and when they actually get their refill.

So if someone's got a 90 day fill of a medication, they come in at 105 days, that would be 15 gap days. And then they would use those 15 gap days to retroactively try to understand how the patient took their medication. But as you can expect, knowing that someone had 15 gap days, doesn't really tell us how they took that medication.

For instance, they could have, they could have doubled their dose. In 15 days, they could have skipped 15 days of their medication. They could have tripled their dose in five days, right? There's just an infinite number of ways that they could have not taken their medication to account for those caps. It could 

Mike Koelzer, Host: be that they wanna be more compliant and they took too many, but then at the end they had communication issues or something right back to the pharmacy on getting it filled, or they didn't have the money or whatever.

So you have real time 

Gavin Buchanan: data. Exactly. And, and it's something that we're really excited about. Um, and eventually that's exactly what [00:55:00] we'll be kind of building out is a database that can understand how real patients in the real world take their medications on a daily basis. It's much more granular than PDC and hopefully, um, will lead us to having the, the best insights in the market about, you know, patient behavior when it comes to prescription medication, um, and leveraging that to create better policies, uh, better procedures, um, and better me med dosing schedules and, and medication list for patients, you know, based off of, you know, their, their, uh, unique history in the conditions they have.

Mike Koelzer, Host: Are there any interesting cases where you think somebody would go around the system on this, where like a, a, a grandmother would say, I'm not taking that damn medicine, but I'll open this bottle up three times a day to show that I'm, you know, so my granddaughter doesn't try to get me in trouble or something like that.

Are there any similar stories of people trying to get around this or are there ways to not get around it and so on? Yeah, I mean, 

Gavin Buchanan: I would, I would say that, that our. Our kind of methodology for, for patient facing solutions is all about, um, you know, posi positive reinforcement and care. And so, you know, essentially what we're trying to provide, uh, for the patient is something that, that, um, positively reinforces them.

Every time they take their medication correctly, we're not trying to create, uh, you know, big brother. Surveillance technology that, you know, tracks their doses and, and, you know, tells them if they, if they do it wrong, but instead creates something that, that informs them about the medication they're taking, lets them know why they should be taking it.

And, and you know, we have some features in the app that explain to the patient what medications they're taking, why they're taking it, that streamline communication between them and their, their pharmacist or their primary care providers and family members in a way that we're hopeful. Um, you know, kind of flips the script on, on, um, taking prescription medication.

It's actually one of our, our overall goals with the company, kind of that, that, you know, future vision is actually helping to, to change the culture around taking prescription medication where right now, you know, people are willing to share the steps. They've walked, the calories, they've consumed all these metrics with their friends about them.

Uh, data, but they don't wanna share what medications they're taking and how they're taking them. Right. There's a lot of secrecy still around, you know, medications, even though 160 million Americans are on at least one prescription medication, um, every year. So, you know, we wanna help, you know, change that culture for the better and make it towards, um, you know, people are more open, they're more honest about their prescription medication and, and in a way to get healthier.

Mike Koelzer, Host: So, yeah, that's interesting. I took my medicine, you know, this many times in a row or something like that, like the kids do on, um, what the hell? Snapchat or something? They say how many days in a row they said hello to their friends or something like that. I wish they would skip one of those and say hi to me once in a while.

yeah, because like, you guys don't have this as like, like if they go so many hours past. They're not gonna open it and it's not gonna turn into a joy buzzer. no. Do you guys remember joy buzzers? I, I 

Gavin Buchanan: do. I'm not sure if Andrew does, 

Mike Koelzer, Host: It looks like a ring, but inside, you've got this thing about the size of your thing and it's got a thing.

And when you shake someone's hand with it, it hits the buzzer and you know, it doesn't shock them, but it feels like they got shocked by it. Is it a reminder system? 

Gavin Buchanan: Yeah. So, it has a reminder system. So when they, when they scan the prescription bottle, um, and add that medication, they can set the reminders and essentially the way, um, it'll it'll work is it'll remind them, um, right before their dosing time at their dosing time and right after their dosing time.

Um, and at any point that they take their medication, the reminders stop. Um, but if they go through all three reminders and they still haven't taken their medication, it'll let their, their buddies in, in their care circle, know that they're missing a medication. Right. And so, you know, a family member can just, you know, message them or, or ask them, you know, what's going on.

And if enough time elapses, then it lets them know that they've now. The medication entirely. So it, it helps, you know, provide that, that first responder system with their closest circle of, of people and then their, their pharmacist or their clinician, um, or their nurse can get involved and, and provide a real time health intervention, um, to make sure that there's nothing, you know, larger at issue.

Yeah. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Because it could be that they're not taking it because they're, they've fallen and they can't get up. I know a lot of people, they have their pill packs, you know, like, like, like we just set up our two week pill reminder thing. Do you guys have anything for something like that down the road of opening up your pill reminder?

So they're not taking their actual bottles. 

Andrew Aertker: Yeah. We're, we're working on it. Um, that is a big piece though, is those kinds of pill packs and the reason why those pill packs exist is because people don't have any system currently for monitoring or managing their medication, which is what we supply. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. You're [01:00:00] right. We see our solution as a way to kind of. Uh, reduce the use of those in some capacity. And hopefully it's a much better solution than those. Um, those are kind of arduous and you have the problem with, you know, mistaking, uh, medication, stuff like that. So you open 

Mike Koelzer, Host: up two tops and, and two days pop out at once or something like that.

Exactly. Exactly. Once you get this down, this guy's a limit on whether this is a bottle or a flat package or a, it doesn't really matter. It's all the same process basically. Right? 

Andrew Aertker: Yeah. And the technology that we've, you know, created is really universally applicable, too. For 

Mike Koelzer, Host: sure. For sure. Speaking about that last question, guys, you thought of curiosity, has your mind ever gone to say something like, Hey, now that people are using this for pharmacy, this sounds like something they could use for X, Y, Z, have you come up with any of those X, Y Zs, whether it be, you know, reminding people.

Change this, or do that. I mean, do you have any of those? Yeah. 

Andrew Aertker: So, uh, just in healthcare alone, I think there's a myriad of options. Uh, geriatric communities, you have pain management clinics, you have clinical research clinical trials. So, I mean, just within healthcare, you probably have 10 options for where technology like this is applicable.

And then you expand from there. Um, and really just the ability, if you think about, just about anything, the ability to monitor and track things on a day to day basis, um, maybe it's shipping or maybe it's, you know, transportation, these kinds of pieces. Um, It just provides a lot of insights that people are lacking right now.

And so that's what I mean. That's why I said, you know, our technology's universally applicable. And I really mean that in the grandest sense in the sense that, um, it really can be applied in so many different areas. I think for Gavin myself right now, it's dedication to the healthcare industry. I think there's so many options just in our reach here, there's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: a million things.

Did the person put their glasses on? Are they up walking around with other glasses or did they make it to the bathroom? You know, did they do this? I mean, all of those are very short jumps of you having, instead of having a light sensor on a bottle top, you've got it in their bathroom just to show up the light flipped on or something like that.

So yeah, even in healthcare, you'd have more than your hands full probably with, with that, you know? Absolutely. Well gal Darna guys. Congratulations on this. Wow. 

Gavin Buchanan: Thank you, really cool. Thank you. Really appreciate it. This has been a, a great 

Mike Koelzer, Host: conversation. Thanks for letting me, uh, Mess around and, and go to some places on that.

I'm thinking about my move, the movie here now, not my movie, cuz you haven't given the rights to it yet to. I know patch RX can be talking about, and your website says both, it talks about patch Adams, keeping people happy and so on with their medicine, but it's also an acronym for pill, administering technology for compliance healthcare.

So. Which one is the truth, which one came first, patch Adams or this acronym? I, I actually 

Gavin Buchanan: I think the, uh, patch Adams came first. Um, I, I, he's always been a health hero of mine for the listeners that, um, don't know, uh, patch Adams created the, the first, um, completely free hospital. Um, there was no cost for anyone involved, no insurance involved.

Um, all, all doctors that were practicing over the course of its 20 years did so on a completely volunteered basis. Um, and his whole, um, methodology and, and, and kind of mission behind it was making sure that, that, you know, the patient comes first always. And that compassion is, um, the, the core component of, of all healthcare.

And so always been a health hero of mine. And once we created the name patch, um, as kind of an homage to him, um, you know, I, it was just, you know, can we, can we. Fit in an acronym. so 

Mike Koelzer, Host: you can always figure an acronym out eventually. Right? Right. Yours is actually pretty darn. I mean, that's pretty tight on that one.

Thank you. Yeah. That patch Adams, that was the late Robin Williams though. That did a good job in that movie. Well, Gavin and Andrew, uh, boy, best wishes to you guys, and we'll be watching and congratulations. Thanks for spending your time on the show and with our listeners. Thank you, Mike. Thank you so much, 

Andrew Aertker: Mike.

It's 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Be pleased. All right, guys, we'll talk again soon. Great. All right, bye. 

Gavin Buchanan: We'll talk to you soon.