Celebrating Men in Pharmacy | Jerrica Dodd, PharmD, PharmaSIR Magazine

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Mike: Jerrica, for those who haven't come across you online, introduce yourself and let our listeners know what we're talking about today.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I am Dr. Jerrica Dodd,  and I am the founder and CEO of Your Pharmacy Advocate and the executive editor of PharmaSis Magazine. I've been a pharmacist for 24 years. Today. We are going to discuss pharmacist magazine and a new special edition pharma serve magazine, celebrating men in pharmacy.

Mike: Dica welcome back on this show. I never knew that you got your pharmacy degree when you were 15.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Oh, well, you 

know,

Mike: state did you do that in?

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I can't tell all my secrets, Mike

Mike: now. Alright, so Juka when you and I spoke last time, we were talking about pharmacists and now, I know you came out with the male side of things and I wanna keep calling it pharma, bro. But that's that Elli guy, right? doing that industry thing.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: No connection whatsoever. This is pharma, sir. I wanted an equally classy name to describe my desire to celebrate men in pharmacy.

Because when I started down this journey, on this journey three years ago, it was not only to celebrate women pharmacists, which is where I started. But, you know, in time we added pharmacy technicians, we added pharmacy students, but it was also my goal to celebrate the men in pharmacy. But I knew that I couldn't do everything at once.

So I took the journey in stages and now we've arrived at the Pharmaca journey.

Mike: I think that's a great name. And I'm thinking to the pharmacist, I suppose that could have been Pharmac she right?

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Possibly

Mike: I don't think that's as good as pharmacists. I'm just thinking the words that could have been now when I think of pharma, sir, were there any other words in the running? Were there any other concoctions or is that about the only, and I think it's great, but is I'm just wondering, is that the only male thing we can come up with is pharma, sir,

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: well, I'm sure there could have been others, but

Mike: It could have been pharma. He,

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: no, no

and bro just sounds, I don't know. It sounds a little familiar.

Mike: not saying it should have been that, that just got my mind from that guy.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: There have been many times that I've been asked as I've gone around the country and I've spoken and talked about pharmacists, which actually is a play on the word pharmacist. there have been many times when people have said, so what's the mail version pharma bro.

Mike: That's where it's from now. I get it right. Because pharmacist you're talking about sister and that's where the pharma bro comes

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: No Pharmaca is great. I like that. I 

Mike: like 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: you. Thank you. And I really wanted to provide that platform where men in pharmacy could be celebrated, because I know that we talked several years ago, this road of entrepreneurship, and just, leveling up in our careers, whether you're an entrepreneur or even an employee that I think has had a renewed birth, if you will, in our profession, because of all of the.

Changes in the profession. I think we are finding more and more people looking around going, what can I do? That's different. And so my goal is to share those stories. One for the men and women in the magazine to market themselves, that's ultimately something that we were not trained to do in pharmacy school, but also so that the readers of the magazine, if they're sitting on the fence, if they're thinking, why me, because I have a phrase that pharmacists are brilliantly insecure, that if they're thinking, well, I wish I could do this, but I don't know that they're able to read the stories of the men and now of the women.

And now the men in the magazine and be able to identify with someone that they can say, okay, I can reach out to that person or I can see the example and I can do it too.

Mike: you 

Do you think male pharmacists looking at women, pharmacists, do you think there's

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: there's

Mike: Anything in the way of them picturing themselves in that position? 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: The men. I think that men can see women do things, but I think it's easier when, and I think that's a human nature, uh, trait to be able to see someone that looks like yourself and you're going to relate to them usually naturally, faster than you would someone who doesn't look like you.

So I believe having men and women is a positive because not only are. [00:05:00] They can see someone of the same or different gender, which is not really the focus, but they can see someone who's done it. Someone who has blazed a trail that maybe they hadn't even considered

Mike: The closer, it is probably the easier, because I can look at someone and say, well, he's more Sluder than I am, but he's bald. You know what I mean? You don't have to make that big of a jump. And I know my dad was a pharmacist and that made it easier for me to be a pharmacist, if my old man can do it, I can do it.

You see that a lot with a lot of jobs like that, physicians and things like that, where the kids are like this isn't a big hurdle. My dad did it for Pete's sake, 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Absolutely. And I think that. It's also helpful for current students. We have to think about the generation that they're in. And I can imagine being a student in pharmacy school now. I've talked to many students and they share their apprehension and their anxieties of what the job market is going to be like when I get to the end of my academic career, if you will.

And what's that going to look like? So I think it also provides. A role model and example for students who are thinking, I've chosen this road of pharmacy and I'm sure they see all of the news and things that are happening. And they're saying, is there going to be a place for me at the time when I graduated pharmacy school and I went on and completed a residency, it was not quite the commodity market that it is today.

As I see students who unfortunately don't match for whatever reasons. Obviously there are not as many positions as there are applicants. So when you see students who don't match for residencies, and it really seems to be. The end of the world, or at least sounds like it. In many cases, I want students to also see, I want technicians to also see that there are other techs, there are other students, there are pharmacists that are doing things that there is something there's a place for you.

I have shirts that say, everyone needs a pharmacist, obviously because I am a pharmacist. And I really do believe that whether it's practicing in the clinical sense or the sense that society views a pharmacist, no matter what it is, everyone needs a pharmacist.

Mike: You know, I wonder, and I don't, you don't know the answer to this. I'm just commenting here. But you know, what's like when people assume certain sexes with certain roles, it's like back in the day, you always heard about nurses. And then once in a while you'll hear a male person 

saying I'm gonna be a nurse.

It takes just a second for your mind to shift and you say, well, that's a great profession. Good job. It's wonderful. But at first you were probably thinking of women. And I wonder if pharmacies will ever have that female slant on it, cause it's already, what is it? 65%,

female 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: that. Yeah. 

Mike: Same with grade school teachers and flight attendants, back in the day you call them Stewart. It says, but those were certain female professions. I think those days are over though where anybody will say that's a female versus male, because there's so many examples on the internet and it's just a, it's a different world.

I think,

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Definitely. And I think that though, the profession is majority women, at least from the percentages that we see currently.

I don't know if people automatically assume though that pharmacists or women.

Um, I don't think so.

Mike: I don't think so.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: so.

Mike: When you look at a curve of

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: of

Mike: Time in people's lives, where they aspire to be manager and then this, and then CEO, and then, business owner, this and that, it's a very similar curve. You'd be astounded by that. I'm in my mid fifties. If I talk to someone in their mid fifties, it's remarkable.

They all feel about like I do. And there's some outliers. I know Colonel Sanders started KFC when he was like 65. There's some outliers, but most people they're on the same trajectory of desires as far as leadership and then starting to, going down and so on. when you look at 

your perspective, guests in the magazine,

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: magazine,

Mike: Are you seeing that trajectory and what ages are you usually coming across in the mail pattern of where they are at certain times in their life.

And would you say that mimics the females, guests in your pharmacist magazine, 

or is that graph shifted at all? Either way.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: why?

I, from what I've seen, I feel that it is about the same between genders that I think, and [00:10:00] I think part of that is due to several different reasons. Number one, I think it's how we're socialized in our 

society. You grow up, you go to college, you get a degree, you get a good job. And I think that, partially is impacted by if our parents were in those entrepreneurial or leadership or executive type roles or.

I think that the other piece that is impacting that is our profession and the job market itself. So my understanding is that from 2020 to 2030, there's going to be a decrease in the number of jobs so that if you and I were likely looking for a job, we might not be able to find one.

We've had an increase in pharmacy schools. Over that 10 year span, just as an example, there will be a decrease in jobs. So I think that's a factor that impacts that point in life, where you go, I think I wanna do something different or something more. I think. mortality starts to come into view.

And you realize when you get to be 40 something that you could have potentially lived half or almost half of your life. And so you're starting to think more about what mark do I want to leave on the world, which is, I feel broader than what mark do. I want to leave my profession. And I think you have, so there are lots of things that. Where we get to in our careers. I think for women, when we just think from a physiological perspective, I think we may see more women peak a little later in age, and that may be due to a decline in estrogen over time. And so there's less, less desire to, nest, if you 

will, and raise a family because that's already usually taken place.

So then if you think about even the women that have run for president, they've definitely been past the child rearing years, and it's kind of, I'm ready to go take on the world if you will. So there are all types of factors that I feel that play into that, but I would say that the average person in the magazine has the, or the average range of age has been usually about.

35 to I've had women who have been in their mid fifties. And then with regard to the recent issue of the magazine I'm seeing about that same spread as well.

Mike: My demographic for the listeners of this podcast are about 70% male and , the top wrong is the 35 to 45. So the average listener is a 40 year old male. They're maybe past being managed and wanting to manage whether that's ownership or doing some other endeavor.

And then maybe at my age you kind of maybe know what, you know, already or something like that.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: And, I heard a stat not too long ago that just in thinking about podcast listeners in general, that their majority male and I did, I think I heard like 65% of men make up the audience of podcast listeners. And I did not realize that, but,that's interesting as.

Mike Koelzer, Host: There's an author, his name is Seth Godin. He basically writes a lot of marketing stuff, but his comment to people is. Do something so much so that when you're not there, people miss you. And that's exactly why I've done my Monday morning podcast with these updates and so on.

And you just keep putting it out there and get to the point where if you weren't there, people would notice. And that for me besides hopefully, oh, of course, quality guess. But besides that, just that repetitive, publication of that gets people in the habit of using you, but so much so that if you weren't there, they would notice.

And if they notice that means there's a little bit of a need or a desire for that.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Absolutely. I have had people say to me, because there have been times along this journey where I've taken a little step back from social media, which is my, one of my main, modalities for marketing And I've had people say, I don't see you anymore. Are you okay? I've had people send me messages and say, are you okay?

Is everything alright? And while I don't do that to alarm or alert anyone, it's actually quite interesting that someone misses you because you think about the, just the fast pace of social media and it's [00:15:00] constantly changing and updating that. It's interesting when someone says I haven't seen you for a minute.

And when I have people say I've been following you for years. First of all, I have to remember that there have been a couple of years and cuz first of all, your thoughts are I haven't been doing that long enough for you to say I've been following you for years, but I have. And I agree with you. It's one of those situations where I, for me, I put my head down and keep going.

And so I didn't even realize that. With the magazines and the special issues that we are publishing this year, we went from one magazine in 2019, and now we're in 2022. And if we are on schedule, we will complete seven magazines. We will publish seven this year. And so you, I just kind of came to that realization the other day when I just sat and added them up because I've been working on them each, but you go, you hold your head up and go, whoa, we really made a big leap this year.

Mike: It proves that yes, you put your head down and you make things a habit and you go, because I look at the number of shows that I've had, and it's like, where the hell did that number come from? But it was just, it's just a weekly thing.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: it's a cadence. 

Mike: It's a cadence, for my stuff, there's not much I do that. Doesn't go on my do list. And my to- do list has just a ton of repeat functions. So every week I don't say to myself, I'm doing a podcast this week. I say, oh, here's.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: here's this

Mike: Practice, whether it's posting here or doing that.

And I just knock that off, so it's a labor of love, of course, but without that repetitive, motion, things become more of a dream more of a long term goal and not a stepwise process

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Right, right.

Mike: Dica. when you say, your magazine, what's 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: what's the 

Mike: of

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: of.

Mike: online magazine where you have that flip thing, you know, I don't know what the hell they call it, but like a, a fancy PDF magazine versus hard copy.

Do you have both?

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I do have both. 

 would like 

half and 

half? I would say probably close to half and half with more being digital. I think in this digital age that we're in, 

Mike: Hey, you'd love to be all digital, 

right? I mean, if you 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: you could,

Well, actually, no, because part of the experience that I have created, especially for those who are in the magazine, Nine times out of 10, most of us will not have had the opportunity to see ourselves in a magazine. I mean, it's not like you, it's an everyday occurrence if you will.

And so there's the thing that I say about pharmacists is we're brilliantly insecure so many times when a pharmacist digs in like you and I do, and we put our head down and we go to work, we are working on the thing. And it's very rare that we raise our head up and look around. Like I said, oh my gosh, we're doing seven magazines, seven publications this year.

You, it kind of takes you off guard because we are definitely great worker bees, whether it's for ourselves or for others. However, the experience that I've crafted is what I want. Woman. And now man, who is featured in the magazine to stop, because there's a difference in seeing yourself online on social media or, on an online digital version of a magazine, but to hold it in your hand and to flip to your page and go, wow, I am the CEO of this business.

Or I am the CEO of my career. That is the experience that I create and want to continue creating. So even if we were to, cancel or discontinue the print versions of the magazine for subscribers, I would still have that as a feature for those who are featured, because I think every one of them needs the experience of holding the magazine in their hand and seeing themself.

That's really cool.

Yeah. We don't tend to see ourselves as the CEO of our business or as the CEO of our career. And I think that it has a lot to do with our mindset. One, we were not socialized or groomed that way in pharmacy school.

We were trained to be fulfilled in a long cascade. There's marketing, there's sales and there's fulfillment. We were trained to be at the end of that line and fulfill the order, whether it be clinical practice or whether it be actually filling a prescription. And many times when we set off into the other thing, that different phase of life, where it's I want to lead, I want to leave my impact on the profession and on the world, we don't see ourselves.

And I think to be able to see yourself gives you perspective, number [00:20:00] one, in how the world sees you. And then two, I think it gives you perspective to say, to stand in the place that you are to, to the shoes that you're to fill in doing whatever it is you've been called to do. When I first started as an entrepreneur with my consulting practice, there is still not a picture of me on that website.

And I leave it that way on purpose because I wanted to be a part of the background. I was like, no one needs to know that it's mine. I said things like people won't buy from a black woman. Because that's what I really believe, it has lots of limiting beliefs. But as time went on, someone said to me, if you're going to be running this business, you've gotta get out of it.

You've got to be the face of it. So that's why I'm on the cover of the women's magazine. Because I was in the process of building a brand. It's not about a vein, wanting to see my face or anything like that.

But it's so important because I still get it in my head.

I'm just as analytical as the next pharmacist. But when I come to my desk each day and I see this, I am reminded of that. I can do whatever I set my mind to do. It doesn't mean that there won't be challenges or what have you, for whatever reason.

However, my mindset is it can be done. I went from idea in my head to magazine in, in my heart to magazine in my hand in 90 days. So that's where I get that phrase. Don't tell me what's not possible.

Mike: A magazine spread. You don't really need that. When you have your billion dollars, it would been nice when you were starting

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: right, right there. I think about the example of one of the women in the early edition of, or early publication of the pharmacist magazine. And when I approached her about being in the magazine, she was like, well, I,I'm not there yet.

I haven't done this and this I've even had women, women say I don't have my website together, or for whatever reason that people give you. And I remember her saying, I am, so cuz we've talked two years later and she said, I am so glad that I went ahead with being in the magazine because that was the impetus that got.

And my wheels turned and I started making things happen because I said in that magazine that this was what I was going to do and she has now done it. And so she said, I'm so glad I didn't wait because I think that is a trait of probably just humans in general. But obviously I talk with a lot of pharmacists and pharmacy professionals of I'll do it when this condition is right or 

that 

The conditions are perfect. 

And I don't think there that exists,

Mike: when you're trying to, conquer a goal, it used to 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: to be 

Mike: tell people 

about your goals. 

because then you're wedded to them. But I've heard contrary to that. I've heard where people say, and this would be for, me, don't tell 

people your goals, because 

you've already experienced the accolades of doing it when you haven't done it, it'd be like me saying, I'm gonna do an iron man, and everybody would say to me, it's great. It's great. Well, if you can get greats for just saying it, why do the damn thing , you've already got your accolades.

However, if it's in print for the world to see, you're not just talking to your family and friends, if it's in print for the world to see you better damn well get things going because it's there.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I agree. And I would say Mike, that my take on sharing your goals or not, it's kind of twofold. Number one, I generally operate in silence because I don't necessarily think that the entire world is excited for you.

I think that there are definitely sometimes, unfortunately, people who are just waiting to see if you're going to fall, or if you're going to quote unquote failure. However, I do believe in sharing your goals with people that you can trust around you, who will hold you accountable, who will say, Hey, I thought that you were going to, so that you do continue when you need that push when you need that level of accountability.

And so I think that's a mixed bag. I don't necessarily announce to any and everyone, but to my closest circle, I've definitely been having conversations. Like I'm gonna bring out the Pharmaca magazine and, even. When I got to a point where I knew we were ready to move forward, [00:25:00] even, having limited conversation.

just because I also think it's, I think I have the best job in the world making these types of announcements, because it brings me such joy to celebrate others in the profession. It does 

not take anything away from me. And I think that unfortunately in the grand scheme of healthcare, pharmacists are overlooked often or are not recognized for some of the day to day things that we do.

And so I love that my job is to make a big deal out of what other people do.

Mike: You gotta be real careful who you share things with, , especially if you're looking for, uh, support, let's say my kids told, some teacher this or some leader, I'm like, why the hell did you tell them? you knew they weren't gonna support that. It's like you were testing yourself or trying to get their approval when you knew damn well they weren't gonna approve that.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I think there is something human about us telling the wrong person, if you will, because maybe we are just hoping maybe just maybe we'll get that shred of approval from them.

Mike: Yes. And How fulfilling is it to tell somebody, someone that you're pretty darn sure. They're gonna give you a lot of support. You're probably gonna say good job, no matter what I did, but I could turn the corner on this person who 99% of the time is probably gonna question.

If I get that one time, then I'd be really excited. Cause I won them over and

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I think the older we get, you start to really care less about people's opinions. and because you realize that everyone has one. That's why actually, when I led with the post for the Pharmaca magazine, I said that it wasn't a, it wasn't a conference call. And I talked about how it wasn't on a party line.

If the reader was old enough to even remember what a party line 

I didn't really have multiple discussions about what I knew I wanted to do. Do

Mike: You 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: you at free 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: yes. I don't necessarily have to have. A consensus or everyone's buy in before I can move forward.

Because I think that number one, that takes time to get number two. Like you said, you're trying to win over people who don't know that I have that time either. And three, I know that what I've been tasked to put into the world, it's bigger than a pharmacist or a phar or a pharmacy tech or student here in the United States.

It's a global thing.

Mike: It's quite a remarkable time we're living in now because who would've thought years ago 

that 

with just 

your own drive, you could do something like the podcast or have a magazine come out or something like that. , you couldn't do that. People now, the younger generation, there's not a concept of going through the middle man.

I say it on the show quite often. I mean, that's where the whole casting couch, the whole me too kind of thing, where people had to sleep their way to the top. If you didn't, you don't make it past any directors or whatever's, these creepy guys, you didn't make it past them because that was your middle man.

It's a remarkable time now where people just. Bounce around Justin Bieber and all these people. It's like, there's no middleman anymore. Maybe in some industries. like book publishing, I talked to an author on this.

It'd probably be hard to do a book without going through some publishing house. It can be done, but there's certain industries that you still can use some help with, but it's nice that the middle man's not there anymore. So 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes. And it's why I think that as a profession, it's so important. you, I know, heard me say it before your dreams are urgent, because I think having had a middle man or having had, the naysayers are like, how are you gonna do that? However, is that gonna happen now with more of that being removed?

I really do think that it's possible to build whatever it is that you want to see, be it in healthcare, be it in whatever gap you find. in life. You can potentially solve that or at least attempt to solve it.

Mike: You know, just so much has sped up. I mean, can you imagine the stuff that you put out you know, you're not sure which way this has to go. And years ago you might have spent a hundred thousand dollars to have focus groups and all that kind of stuff.

And now you just put out two posts on LinkedIn and like the next day you have this much attention on this and that on that. And you're like, okay, we're gonna go in that direction today. of stuff. It's just amazing.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: It's almost like instant feedback. Yet that allows you to adjust course. While we were talking about consistency earlier and having that cadence, you can [00:30:00] keep that cadence and make adjustments really quickly while you're continuing 

to consistently show up.

Mike: You may be alluded to this, but there's a lot 

of 

room in pharmacy leadership and it's, not 

a zero sum game.

 If I'm successful at this doesn't mean you are not successful at that. Typically in, especially some of the stuff that you and I are doing in a crap load of other people, the information on information doesn't keep the other information down.

It's kind of like when you go into a mall in the food court, there's a reason why there's 20 restaurants. This is because everybody gets lifted up, Soif another magazine came out they would be, oh, look at this genre of information coming up with more magazines.

Oh, pharmacy has hit this level. Let's read all of them. There's a lot of room for a lot of people , especially with vision.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I agree with you. There have been several magazines that I have seen. and whenever I do catch wind of them or see them, I actually reach out to that magazine contact or publisher whomever it is that I know that's connected with it

Mike: You mean those bastards that are trying 

to take over what you're 

doing?

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: but I don't see it that way. I see it a and I, again, I believe that to tell someone congratulations or to wish them well does not take anything away from me. And so I actually, when I see any new magazine, I reach out and say, congratulations, because I believe that if there's room, there's plenty of room for everyone.

There's plenty of room for us to all do what we've been called to do. And one of the things that I can imagine that when we spoke a couple years ago, I somehow had to allude to, is your story. If there were someone who was doing the exact same thing as me on the earth, the thing that makes me and them is who we are as individuals.

And we are all. Unique. And we all have a different story.

Mike: Besides having that attitude, it just makes business sense who knows how your paths are gonna cross with collaboration or whatever it maybe not, but it's a big enough world.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I actually reached out as we were preparing to lay out Pharma magazine and I reached out to another publication and said, Hey, I'd love to have an ad. For your magazine and what you're doing that focuses on the men in your, your entity to, to be highlighted. And that's another magazine, but I believe that there's room for everyone and that magazine, publisher or owner was like, yes.

And after this is all over, we definitely have to sit down and connect because I like to sit and think about what's possible.

Mike: If you're competing, selling a doorbell to somebody, you know, it's like, you only have so many doors, you only, only have so many doorbells. You're only gonna have one, but when it comes to attention and to knowledge and media and things like that.

It's 

like 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: like 

Mike: Someone who sees good stuff is going to be encouraged to look 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: to look for other good stuff 

I have even been approached about publishing other magazines, and that's something that I'm definitely going to move into and go in that direction as well, because I've learned a lot in these three years, and I think it's only fitting to support others who want to.

put together a magazine and publish as well. and definitely, I don't see competition I see, how do I help this person put their voice into the earth or their ideas in, out into the profession so that others can consume, read and learn from

Mike: It's amazing how much, you know, now for example, about this process, it's just amazing. And some of the odds and ends I do for this show, I'll do something that I thought about when I was like, you know, 20, you know, doing some sound, something or other, and 

You don't even know what you're bringing to it, but you're just bringing so many experiences to that. It's just amazing, you know, a lot more than you think, you know,

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes. Yes, because you're learning every day. As I said, we put our heads down and you don't realize the amount of knowledge and just even understanding the market. The market for pharmacists is different from the market for Pharmaca. And so even the market for the magazine in the United States is different from the [00:35:00] market in other countries.

And so understanding that has probably been one of the biggest lessons that I've learned is that not to just assume that, because you've done something one way in a place that it's going to be a cookie cutter approach to duplicating it in another market or with another demographic. So that in itself has been a big lesson.

Mike: Yeah. And not only,talking 

about 

your knowledge, when you have to learn something under the duress of, you know, failure once a while, my kids will say, dad, you're a fast typer. Uh, I'm not, but you know, I'm relatively speaking, you know, you're a fast typer and it's like, how'd you get fast?

It's like, well, back in the day when the store was busier and things like that, it's like, if I didn't type fast, I didn't have dinner. You know, if I couldn't get through data entry back in the day, I wouldn't have had dinner. And so I wanted to eat that kind of thing.

 Or like with,computer issues. I tend to solve computer issues. Not because I'm, 

some. Technological Wiz. But if a computer went down, you went out of business, you didn't have an option of throwing it to the side.

So that's your stuff too, if you do your magazine skills. You didn't have an option just to not do it and walk 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: walk away from 

1. You committed to this 

Mike: and to your customers and things like 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: and things like that.one of the things that I tell my coaching clients, because I think in pharmacy as pharmacists or as pharmacy professionals, we're used to solving a certain set of problems.

But then when we're out of that environment, you become an entrepreneur and you're the Jack of all trades for a minute, until you can start hiring a team or what have you. And so one of the things that I say to my coaching clients is that business owners solve problems first for themselves, then for other people.

So when the computer breaks down or whatever happens in the system in the workflow, there is no, oh, I'm just gonna call tech support and that's their problem, whatever it is you are that, especially in the beginning, until you realize you've reached your limitation and you do need to call someone in, but business owners solve problems.

And so in solving problems, one of the ways that we help our customers and our clients and our stakeholders understand that we can solve their problems is to be able to solve our own and say, Hey, this is what I, this is what I 

for myself. And so you're right. it becomes it's you can't just throw it to the side.

You've either gotta take the time to dig in and figure it out or realize when you've reached the level of, I say your pay grade and someone else needs to step in and help solve that problem. But either way it's the problem generally still has to be.

Mike: Working 

with 

some of these 

male entrepreneurs as 

a woman, do you bring certain skills to them that you think a man may not bring, whether it's a certain direction you see that might be more typical of women's skills than men's skills.

For example, on a whole women might be more verbal than we men that just grunt a lot, that kind of stuff. Do you bring any comforting skills that a woman might have better than a man? 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: So I don't know that I would've necessarily pegged it to be because I'm a woman, but I think naturally, being a woman, I tend to be more nurturing.

Mike: What that's what I'm getting 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yeah. Even as I have coached men as coaching clients, I know most people know me for speaking to women in pharmacy. And that's definitely true. However, that's why in my recent summit, I said women in pharmacy and a few good men because

I speak to men as well, obviously with the magazine and through coaching.

So I think that I bring a level of understanding and a level of nurturing. So when I make the statement to say, pharmacists are brilliantly insecure, I don't just mean women in pharmacy are brilliantly insecure. I think just in general, because of the way we. Fit in the hierarchy sometimes of the healthcare system in that the doctor is the lead and we are to take, Q and direction from the physician.

And I think that lends to some of the insecurities that we have as pharmacists sometimes. However, I'd like to think that my ability to coach with regard to confidence, 

because I don't think confidence is just, or lack of confidence is just a problem for women. I also tend to, I think, one of the things that I enjoy the most about looking or connecting with another individual.

Thinking about what's possible. So I bring that skill of being able [00:40:00] to look at a situation that I, as my father would say, I don't have a dog in that fight, but look at a situation and think of, and brainstorm relatively quickly and say, well, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? Have you thought about that?

And I love being able to do that, but I don't know if necessarily that's a trait because I'm a woman. 

I think that,

 it's just one of my gifts,

Mike: there's a lot of stuff that, we, men lack that I think, women 

can 

bring. I mean, Just for example, 

My wife, or my daughters will tell more stories, they're more verbal and they'll tell more stories and add more life to issues. As I think of a magazine, it's a story and it's sharing, and those kinds of things women just do a better job at some of that stuff. I think you maybe could pull out more and. Pull out more of the, the cavemen and get us more into the, uh, you know, the story 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: does everybody 

I like the story.

Right. Well, and I have done that with both genders, because there are pharmacists who will tell you their pharmacy story. 

And I don't espouse telling a different story based upon what audience I'm in front of. My story is my story, no matter who I'm standing in front of.

And it doesn't matter if they are in a healthcare profession or not. I believe that my story is my story. And so actually I have done more as I'm working with the featured men and women in the magazine, I am helping them to share their story and not hide behind it, not give that official pharmacy version.

That sounds like me. I was born in 1962 and I went to kindergarten in 1967. That's a chronological telling of your story, but really sharing. As I like to say, the good, the bad and the ugly, because oftentimes I think as healthcare professionals, we like to dress up and share the good and maybe a little.

Mike: It's just more interesting. I'll do that with my guess. And I give a little bit of information and one of the first things I say is, we're gonna talk about stuff, but we're not gonna go chronologically. We're gonna jump into something that's gonna be over here and maybe come back and grab it.

 I say trust the process, but we're gonna go into some things 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: that might 

Mike: embarrassing or a little bit, because 

if not, 

it's, 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: as total.Well, and I think that especially even well, prior to the pandemic, but after we have been through two years plus now of a pandemic, I think that the essential thing that's needed.

By all humans it is to be known, to be heard, to be understood by someone. And so I don't think that it does any good to give a dressed up stoic version of what we think people want to hear. 

Mike Koelzer, Host: Maybe I'm getting cold and uninterested in things, but, 

and if someone talked about something I'm interested in, I might want the details. Like I kind of like making some music.

So if people talk to me about a new synthesizer kind of thing, I might be interested in the details, but. 

Whenever somebody 

either in print or, audibly starts telling me about their 

like 

schooling and where they spent time and things like that. That is so freaking boring to me because it's all the damn same.

I don't really care where you went to school and I know that you had this PG Y and PG this, and I know you did that. I don't give a crap. tell me something different, but if I'm gonna hire someone, I guess I don't want the difference to be something like, you know, my hobby is juggling or something like that, but I just want it a little bit different.

It's just, of this stuff is so 

boring.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: You know, Mike, I agree with you and it's why when I'm coaching and when I am publishing the magazine, I read all of it because I'm not committed to producing boring, because if I wanted to know where any individual went to school, I could probably find that in a couple of keystrokes online.

We include that information in the feature of each person in the magazines. However, that's not the focus. I think that. Pharmacists, if you ever are in a group of pharmacy professionals and people have to introduce themselves, listen to, like you said, how long they go on about what they've done, where they went to school.

And when I think about any client that I've ever served, they have never asked me where I went to school. My patient consulting clients have never said, [00:45:00] is your license active? All people want to know is can you help me solve my problem?

That's what people want to know. And so I think that we should spare the details because I say this, that we're all smart 

Mike: Speak for yourself. Jarika

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: we're all smart. And we all have at least a couple of alphabets that we can put behind our name, which if you tell the truth, anybody outside of our profession doesn't even know what that means.

So are we putting that behind our name to impress each other? We're all smart. And so I think that telling your story is a much more powerful way to connect than for me to give you the long rap sheet of my academic achievements or even my career achievements. I don't think that's the way I think, sharing with you, who I am and what I've been placed here to put into the world is more interesting and intriguing than me running down a list of things you could probably find on your own without me saying

Mike: There's a chance. People don't ask about my schooling because 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: they 

might 

not be 

sure I 

have. 

Mike: They don't wanna embarrass me.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: I believe you finished. And I've never asked because I just, I take for granted that you finished.

Mike: Oh, I thought you were one of them.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Nah, Nah, 

Mike: You say that pharmacists are brilliant. I can't even say the damn word. 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: They're brilliantly insecure.

Mike: I'll try that word again. They're brilliantly insecure. Does that mean we find out great 

ways 

to 

be insecure? Or 

does it mean that they're 

smart, 

but they're 

insecure? What do you 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: do you mean 

by 

that?

Smart. But we have insecurities about putting things. Out that has not happened before, or that we don't see a template or an example of, I think that if you think about the way we're trained, we worked off of formulas and algorithms and things that were specified that you put in these components and you get this output.

And so when we get to this part of our lives and we're not necessarily running it all through a formula and algorithm, and we don't know how it might turn out, especially if it's not been done before then that's where some of the insecurity comes in and we've been socialized to believe.

Well, that's not what a pharmacist does. I remember when I was leaving my role in the pharma industry, I remember, being told. Well, pharmacists, I didn't even know they could be entrepreneurs, because people have expectations and I think society has expectations of what you should do with such a noble education, if you will.

However, I believe that's where some of the insecurity comes from because we may be worried about what people will say, will they approve? We talked about sharing your goals with other people. And that's where I come up with that phrase: pharmacists are brilliantly insecure because we are amazingly smart.

Mike: You know, what's interesting where that went because yes, pharmacists, it seems like they're always, you know, saluting up to the physicians and things, but if you think back, 

like, 

you know, 50 

years 

practically every pharmacist that graduated did, so because they were an entrepreneur and they were gonna open up a pharmacy or do something like that.

Mike: But 

there's 

a lot of beauty in just 

having your 

job 

in front of you and getting paid for it.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: right.

Mike: Is it too late though? Have they been indoctrinated into this profession so much? Or is there, hope 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: it definitely is a mindset shift and probably a bit of deprogramming from how we're used to operating. But as you look at, just strictly healthcare and the place that pharmacists have even filled in the healthcare scheme, if you will.

Just the pandemic, how pharmacists have been available, ready to serve, ready to help, to how pharmacists are creating all types of pathways in personalized medicine and helping nutrition and deprescribing and all these things that we can do. 

I think that pharmacists are really beginning to forge their own path where they're not necessarily waiting to be told what's needed, but they are identifying a need and then building whatever it is that they feel will help answer the call for whatever's needed. 

Mike: I think for pharmacists 

to 

to be successful in the entrepreneurial range is that they've got to truly find a need. And I think one issue that I've talked to some guests, I forget who it was, but one issue 

that 

got pharmacists in a little bit of trouble. They were doing this and they didn't like this so much.

So they said, we wanna start doing this and let's say more clinical, [00:50:00] but instead of seeing that need, they kind of put the cart before the horse. They said, we're gonna train everybody. So they're way 

up 

here 

yet. 

It wasn't really 

a proven need. And now you've got double training and they're still feeling unneeded

And 

so I 

think it's important 

that you do see a hole or you do see a need to fill and not go out and try to create a need just because you have a higher degree 

or higher training.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: yes. And I think that need is perfectly matched up with your innate desires because to be trained, to do something that you absolutely hate, that's no good either because yeah, you may do it well.

But if we talked about how life is precious and so how many hours do we want to be at work? Whether it's for someone or for ourselves, how many hours do we want to be at work, doing something that we don't genuinely enjoy

Mike: Yeah.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: compared to the fact that oh, but I do it well. So I agreed that there is a need.

There's the desire at which I would equate with passion. And those, I think, need to be married in order to find that sweet spot, if you will, on how you want to serve how you want to. Give what you want to, or the way that you want to impact as well as, having that personal satisfaction. Because I think that's important at the end of all of our careers.

I don't think any of us in this day and age want to sit back and go, well, I served well, even though I hated it the whole time,

 My goal is to reach as many healthcare professionals in general, but specifically those in the pharmacy profession, such that they can respond personally, A role or with a business or with whatever it is they want in their career.

That first gives them satisfaction. But two leaves the impact that all of us went 

Mike: Okay. 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: this profession to create.

Mike: I think the biggest thing, especially what we talked about.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: The small steps you can take on the computer and so on to get stuff going, is it seems you gotta be moving. I think of it like an airplane or a ship. It's like, you don't steer it when it's not moving. It doesn't do anything, but when it starts to move and then you steer and you a little bit this way and that way it's like, it seems the movement is where you make progress.

Mike: Even if the movement not backwards, but even if the movement is somewhat 

forward, 

seems like that's a way to get going. 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: And that's 

Mike: think 

just giving 

Giving them some confidence to make that first small move is a big thing.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes, because generally when we get to a point in life and we say, okay, I'm gonna go a different direction. It's daunting. It's scary. And we try to see that formula, if you will, all the way to what the answer's gonna be and the outcome. And unfortunately, life doesn't always 

work like that. 

Mike: no. It's smaller 

steps. 

well, 

Dika, golly, good having 

you on again. Nice talking to you

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Thank you. 

I appreciate it. 

Mike: And keep doing what you're doing. We all need that push. We all need a little push sometimes, a little bit of a, 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: a,

Mike: a knowledge of outside of yourself, like your magazine is doing for the people that are in it. 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: someone looking into 

Mike: and saying, 

you 

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: you can 

Mike: We all need that.

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: Yes. Yes. And I am so inspired and excited to be able to help those in the pharmacy profession, share stories.

Mike: We'll put your website in the show notes and I know they can see on there all the good things we talked about. all

Jerrica Dodd, PharmD: All right. Doka take care. 

Talk to you soon.

Okay. Thank

you. Thanks.