Behind-the-scenes of The Burnout Doctor | Jessica Louie, PharmD

This transcript was generated automatically. Its accuracy may vary.

[00:00:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: Well, hello, Jessica. 

[00:00:16] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Hi Mike. Thank you for having me on the podcast, 

[00:00:19] Mike Koelzer, Host: Jessica, for those that don't know you or haven't come across you yet, give us your name and a little snapshot of, of why we're talking. Of 

[00:00:28] Jessica Louie, PharmD: course, I'm Dr. Jessica Louie, and I am really passionate about helping pharmacists and healthcare professionals clear the clutter out of their lives, both physically and emotionally.

So we can all focus on what matters most to get out of states of overwhelm and burnout. So I. No, do this by coaching on burnout and coaching with the KonMari method. And I'm also a board certified critical care pharmacist and work full-time as an associate professor at a school of pharmacy. 

[00:01:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: Tell me again, who your.

Audiences for your body and soul and surrounding cleanup. Who, who is that? Um, 

[00:01:13] Jessica Louie, PharmD: so I, uh, really target pharmacists and healthcare professionals and. Uh, what I called the clarify symbol file line method. I've created to walk people through getting out of that overwhelming state that they may feel with burnout and get into, you know, having less stress in their life, more energy in their lives.

And of course, I've worked with other people outside of healthcare, but that's, you know, where I target on my podcast and you know what I target when I worked for Shirley or in person with. How 

[00:01:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: have you made that decision to niche down to healthcare? Because obviously you've had to make that decision with your podcast to, for example, to say I'm the ultimate coach for any profession versus pharmacy.

And how have you decided so far? Pharmacy is a big enough niche. And I suppose another question could be, how have you decided to not even go smaller, you know, to like a niche down to just pharmacy executives being busy, community pharmacists or something sitting at that pharmacy level seem to have been pretty good.

Choice at least this far. 

[00:02:44] Jessica Louie, PharmD: That's a great question, Mike. I think that, you know, when I first got into myself, Business and entrepreneurship back, what four years ago, I had leaned out of the pharmacy and healthcare profession actually, because I wanted to really target women and, you know, finding confidence, living intentionally and everything.

And really over the past two years, you know, I've worked with business coaches and invested about $30,000 in professional and business development. And. That's really where I decided to back down. That's why I launched the burnout doctor podcasts that targeted pharmacists. And, you know, I have been in the pharmacy field for over 10 years now.

I understand where the profession's going. I still work there. I still see my students at the university who are gearing up to become professionals in it. So I really wanted to give back to our profession and combine how we declutter into the healthcare field and really. Burnout from a perspective of what we can do to change our lives.

And then that's 10, 15 minutes versus waiting for an organization or management to change. So that's really where I'm approaching it from the rest of my family in medicine as a physician. So I also understand their world really well. So, um, I also enjoy working with some of those professionals, but I do think, you know, pharmacy is definitely larger.

Profession to target. And I work with all women, uh, pharmacists in my 12 week programs, but I, uh, so that, you know, the small groups of women are, you know, feel comfortable within their five to seven, uh, female pharmacist groups for over 12 weeks. But of course, you know, I take on other pharmacists for one-on-one coaching, um, outside of those smaller programs.

[00:04:30] Mike Koelzer, Host: All right. So tell me again. When you were wider, do you feel that you were too, too generic, that you weren't people who didn't see you as specialized enough? Or tell me again, why did you go to the medical or pharmacy? Was that a business 

[00:04:49] Jessica Louie, PharmD: move? Both in terms of aligning, you know, my personal values with what I was doing.

And also from a business perspective, everyone tells you in a niche and everyone tells you to narrow down and you're skeptical at first because you're targeting a smaller audience, but it actually helps resonate and share your story with people that understand what you're going through because I've lived it.

Um, basically. The person I'm talking to is the person I was four or five years ago. So I know the story behind it. I know what people are feeling. So I think that it's a lot easier to relate to one another. Um, and just talk about, you know, how we're going to overcome some of these challenges. I think 

[00:05:34] Mike Koelzer, Host: you're right.

Where at first you're tempted to go wider. And I suppose if you have a very narrow focus on your. Product, you can go fairly wide, but if you're coming in as either a business coach or something like that, you're competing against the best of the best of the Gary V's. And, and so. One of the area that those people don't have is narrowing it down into, let's say pharmacy, as long as it's big enough and with, you know, 300,000 pharmacists in the U S and only God knows how many in the oil God or Wikipedia knows how many in the whole world, you know, it seems like a big enough, it seems like a big enough group to make your mark.

All right. Here's what, here's what disgusts me. Jessica every time I'm on LinkedIn or something like that. There's always another group for women and women are two thirds of pharmacies, at least. And everybody's there helping women, but there's no buddy out there for us, poor men, you know, the, the, the men that are the minorities in this industry and how come no one's helping us make.

[00:06:59] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I think that's a great question. I think that, um, you know, it also goes back to when pharmacists are willing to ask for that help. And I think that sometimes people don't. I understand the value of asking for help and being vulnerable during that time. So I think that plays into it, but I definitely have, you know, worked with men, um, both, you know, in the decluttering process and in the burnout process.

And they're just usually more willing to work one-on-one and not share. Things in a group setting. So that's why I haven't done a co-ed type of group coaching program for right now. But if there are people out there listening who are interested and willing to be, you know, in a group setting, that's definitely something I'm willing to, to target and to coach towards.

[00:07:48] Mike Koelzer, Host: Do you focus on your marketing? Do you say women a lot or do you just say, you know, pharmacy. Uh, 

[00:07:56] Jessica Louie, PharmD: it depends. Uh, so I say pharmacist a lot. The reason why I say women sometimes is because, you know, my first business, this is actually my third business in the last four years, was, um, on petite fashion, blogging and outfits for women.

There were no men's outfits really at SAP for scrubs and healthcare attire related to scrubs because my boyfriend was in the pictures and things. So that's one of the reasons why people find me through that avenue. So I talked to a lot of women because they want to feel confident and their outfits feel good because our clothing is closest to our hearts and our skin and everything.

So, um, it really kinda depends on how people funnel in and find me. You 

[00:08:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: said petite, what, what does that refer to? 

[00:08:39] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So Bettina in terms of, uh, can be more difficult to find clothing if you're a petite in size and height. Uh, so that's, it was focused on that. Um, you know, other people of course benefited from it.

Basically the petite women benefited when I said my size I was wearing and where to find the product, if they wanted a zap, same one. And then people who aren't pre-teach, you know, found it in terms of how to mix and match things and ideas, and then shop their own closets or shop all their products that I wasn't directly recommending.

[00:09:11] Mike Koelzer, Host: And then that word closet, someone told me that before I was watching a show about a couple of years ago, when someone said, I wish I had their closet or something like that. What the hell are you talking about their closet? But then I realized that it meant like their collection of clothing. Basically. I didn't even know that.

So I got to get more cultured. Tell me Jessica cone, Maria, 

[00:09:36] Jessica Louie, PharmD: is it? Yes. So some people call Marie KonMari cold. Um, I am fine either way. That's the 

[00:09:42] Mike Koelzer, Host: name actually of this lady that I see on TV doing these things. Yeah organization. Yeah. 

[00:09:50] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So basically it's a combination of our first and last name. So Marie Kondo is from Japan and she's the one who will realize this philosophy of how you declutter and simplify your life so that you have lifelong change.

So it's different from other organizing techniques that are out there. 

[00:10:09] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. It's interesting because I know one of her methods I think is like, you pull everything out and just, you know, you pull everything out and put it on the bed or something like that. If I have that right, it kind of reminds me of David Allen, who I'm a fan of with his book, getting things done.

And he talks about, we don't use our mind as a calendar. So why do we use it as a dual list, but just getting everything out, just kind of doing a brain dump before we're able to do something with. Are you online with most of your things like your coaching and that, or are you. Face-to-face 

[00:10:47] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I am both. Um, so when I started on the KonMari method, I was certified in 2018.

There's about 200 certified coaches consultants under Marie Kondo, because of course, coming to the United States, she couldn't do everything herself. So she doesn't work one-on-one with a lot of people, her certified consultants do. So that's when I work. One-on-one where we're in your home together. 4, 4, 6, 8 hour sessions, and then we're working through the process.

And what you said is somewhat true about pulling things out. Um, cause the method really talks about you're not going room by room. What a lot of people think when you're organizing, we're tackling one category at a time, so you don't miss anything. So if you pull out all of the jackets from your house, they may not only be in your bedroom closet, they could be.

Coat closet storage, um, you know, people store their winter items separately. So we're finding all those items and pulling them out so that you can go one by one and see if the items spark joy so that you're not missing something from that subcategory. So I'll work one along with people in person that way.

And I'll travel to clients as well in different studies. Um, my preferred method now is working virtually so that we can combine it with burnout coaching, where we are virtually seeing each other on video once a week, and then doing training on my online portal in between. Uh, and then checking in and through apps like Voxer, um, or email, uh, to keep up that accountability steps.

So I have those options. And then for people that aren't ready to really invest in themselves, I have more online course options that are more DIY type so that you can get started. But if you need that accountability, you can upgrade later. 

[00:12:35] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. If you could do this full time or as much as you wanted to, let's say it gave you the money you want.

What'd you ditch 

[00:12:44] Jessica Louie, PharmD: pharmacy. So right now, uh, no, I, I do advocate that, you know, I don't coach people out of the profession, you know, my class. 

No, 

[00:12:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: but you, but you would, you ditch 

[00:12:55] Jessica Louie, PharmD: it. So if I would go full-time in order to help more people, I would consider leaving my full-time position or going part-time so that I can still, you know, work with the students and still have an impact on, you know, student development at the university setting.

[00:13:11] Mike Koelzer, Host: Okay. But. I'm going to press you on this. Now, if this is really going well, are you just teasing me that you would stay in the pharmacy if you really were doing well on this? Would you really want to stick around in pharmacy and, and help people or would you finally give up. 

[00:13:31] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So think that, you know, I still never, what happens would have some type of foot in the profession either per diem or, you know, most of my clients are pharmacists anyways.

So I feel like I'm in the profession and speaking at, you know, pharmacy conferences or pharmacy events. So I wouldn't feel like I left the profession, but if you're talking about being employed by someone else that would be a consideration, uh, so that I had a larger impact. 

[00:13:57] Mike Koelzer, Host: Even if you were doing this full time, you would be with all the pharmacists you would be speaking to.

And so on, you would feel like right back in, you feel like you were right in the profession basically by, by doing that. Yeah. I don't know. I, I, I think the standard answer is always, yeah, I would keep my feet wet, but I dunno if I was, if I was. For something that was something I started. That was really cool.

I don't know if I would necessarily, I don't know if anybody would want me anymore. 

[00:14:36] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I think it depends on, you know, the culture of the institution and organization of how they support small businesses and passions outside of a typical type of corporate environment. 

[00:14:47] Mike Koelzer, Host: I was talking to someone the other day and I think it depends on how much red tape there is to keep a part-time job and so on, you know, how much you have to.

Can you just slide into it once in a while or do you have to really be deeply involved and in it, are you still in full-time pharmacists capacity? Yes. 

[00:15:06] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I'm so full time. 

[00:15:08] Mike Koelzer, Host: You're doing this outside of that week in the. 

[00:15:11] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Yes. So a lot of times, uh, you know, my virtual coaching sessions are done during one of one day a week.

Uh, usually in afternoons evenings, depending on time zones. And then I will work one-on-one in people's homes, either weekdays at night from about five to 9:00 PM and then on weekends, you know, all day or part day. So, um, I format it so that I can host a lot of online things, you know, after 5:00 PM or work with clients.

So I probably spend, you know, I will honestly say when I first started my business, the first two years I was spending a good 40 hours a week. And now I've built up systems where there are more on autopilot, quote, unquote and quote, unquote passive, even though, you know, nothing's really passive in life.

So I was able to diversify my income stream. You know, multiple ways so that some things run in the background and then I'll probably spend 20 hours a week, um, on my businesses outside of work. And then there'll be, you know, some weeks that are a little bit more, if I'm doing more VIP intensive sessions with people.

[00:16:17] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. How much time would you say you spend at work? 

[00:16:20] Jessica Louie, PharmD: My full-time job is 40 hours a week. 

[00:16:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: 40 hours a week. Yeah. So when you were starting up, you were doing like 40 hours plus another 40 hours again. 

[00:16:29] Jessica Louie, PharmD: And that was, you know, kind of normal to me because I came out of residency and that was about a year after my two year residency in critical care.

So during residency, I was spending about 60 hours a week at the hospital, and I, you know, I felt like I spent more hours at the hospital than at my actual home with all the additional research I was doing. So, and then, you know, my partner, my boyfriend is also taking medicine to finish up his training. So he's, you know, he works 60, 70 hours a week as well.

So it's very manageable right now. And the time of year. When I 

[00:16:59] Mike Koelzer, Host: Think about stuff that brings me joy, it's basically my phone and my computer and then food. But I suppose there's others. I suppose. There's other stuff that brings me joy. I just don't really realize that. 

[00:17:17] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Yeah, I would think, you know, more towards your vacations, you went on or the experiences you're having, you know, these podcasts, you meeting people on.

So those are things that a lot of people, you know, when we remove a lot of the physical clutter from our lives, we can really focus on the experiences, memories that we create in our lives and make room and energy for. So that's really what we're trying to get at in terms of this is a lifestyle change.

This is not a typical organizing type of philosophy. 

[00:17:47] Mike Koelzer, Host: Gotcha. And that's what Marie also teaches with. She does. Yeah. Because some people have so much stuff that they think brings them joy. And they're worried about keeping their car clean and keeping their things in order and whatever that is like. Maybe it doesn't bring them as much joy as if they let that go.

They might enjoy doing other things, like going to concerts or whatever, so that they're able to free time up without things that are probably not bringing them joy. They kind of. It was bringing them. 

[00:18:24] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Right. I think that, you know, in today's study because we're so interconnected and you can see a lot of people's lives online, you know, realizing that it's their highlight role is an important step.

And then also realizing that, you know, when you are. You know, at the end of your life and reflecting on it, what are you going to say? You know, that you wanted more of, are you going to say that you wanted, you know, a better car or, um, better clothing and you know, most of us wouldn't say that most of us wouldn't say we wanted to work more either.

We'd want to say that we spent more time with our loved ones and our family and friends. So. You know, it really gets down into like a deeper dive into how you set up your ideal lifestyle. And, and that's what I think a lot of people have missed with the code Mari method, because the Netflix show did not really emphasize this.

And then I've trained with Simon Sinek and the start with the why process. So that's yeah. My method is clarify first, then you simplify and then you're aligning your work into your life. So if you skip the clarify stage, you may not make it through the simplified stage when difficulties arise, you're going through your family photos and you don't see the value because you don't remember the legacy you want to leave.

[00:19:44] Mike Koelzer, Host: If it was at the end of my life and somebody asked what I would have liked more of, I think I'd probably say more life, but who knows, maybe you're at the age where you don't, where do you picture this? Let's say in 10 years, would you like to be doing exactly the same thing or more focused on, on this business and so 

[00:20:08] Jessica Louie, PharmD: on?

I think that it will grow and evolve with time, but you know, my. Over the next five to 10 years is really to bring code Mari into the healthcare profession and how we are going to spark joy at work, working in healthcare. I think that a lot of things right now, no burnout as a big topic. It's about health care, not just pharmacy and physician world, but you know, I've one who's working in healthcare and how we can help impact it while still keeping our professionals in those, in our profession, after training for so many years, um, you know, Crazy to look at my critical care colleagues and how many people have left critical care.

And it's really difficult to replace those people. It's really difficult for the patients that aren't getting their best care either. So, you know, I see myself as, you know, combining that decluttering and burnout into healthcare, uh, as you know, simple steps we can do. You know, both as individuals and then potentially moving forward in more of the corporate setting, working with those corporate entities on more workshops and training for their employees, so that we support our employees to stay and retain in those companies.

I think that's, what's um, a big problem right now as people leave. Do 

[00:21:25] Mike Koelzer, Host: you see any stereotypes in. Pharmacy regarding this method. In other words, our pharmacists, are they more hoarders in their physical life or in their brain? Are they more hoarders or are they not as open to joy or are they not as open to help?

Are you seeing anything that you think is maybe more of a. Trait of either pharmacists or medical professions that maybe you wouldn't see as much. In other professions for better or worse. 

[00:22:05] Jessica Louie, PharmD: That's a great question. My, actually I see a couple things happening, one as pharmacists and in healthcare in general, a lot of us come out of school and we're not used to making six figures.

So there's this perception of keeping up with the Joneses of, you know, increasing your spending to accommodate your new salary. And I think that's where, you know, one of those. In hindsight could be mistakes that people are making because they're not looking out for their financial freedom and how they're going to bring joy into their lives without feeling trapped with their debt and with their new salary raise.

Um, so that's something unique, I think, to pharmacists and physicians in general. Other things. I think that is unique is, you know, we train for so many years. I personally trained for nine years into my board certification and you know, most pharmacists train between seven, uh, seven to 10 years and MDs train, you know, between 10 and 14 years.

So when we get to the end of our training, I find that a lot of people are like, okay, I've done it. Um, you know, I'll do my CES, my continuing education. Like I need. But they don't realize that there's a value in still having a coach that is working with them as accountability, because yes, they have some mentors, but if you don't have some consistency where if you're investing in a coach for your fitness, your workout regimens, you know, why are you not looking at a coach?

You know, when you've reached the highest level of your profession to give you feedback and. Keep moving towards new goals in your career. And I think that's where healthcare professionals don't view that as a value add. Whereas when I'm working with people that come from more of a corporate setting, they're very used to that because they have executive leadership training programs and they have corporate coaching type of programs.

Um, but in healthcare, we're, we're less likely to ask for help when we need it, because we're supposed to be at the. Level of our profession now. And, um, you know, we're not used to that because, you know, in residency or during fellowship training has kind of, you know, not something that was looked upon positively.

And I think that now we need to allow some of that to happen for the wellbeing of the professions. The whole, 

[00:24:26] Mike Koelzer, Host: You know, let's say like 10 years ago, I don't imagine that you knew you'd be doing this. Do you think you were drawn to this because of your DNA or your culture or your interests? Or do you think that you were.

Saved by this, you know, for example, let me, let me put it this way. There are some people that become nutritionists because they've always been slender and like nutrition. There's some people who like nutrition now because they were quite overweight back in the day and now they've learned it. And now they're trying to share it.

Which side would you say you fall into? I 

[00:25:11] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I think it's difficult to save one way or the other. I think, you know, You know, the KonMari method of decluttering has saved me from my burnout in pharmacy and helped me see individual changes. I also see that. Undergone a lot of personal professional development over the last four years.

And I see that, you know, it partly was in my DNA in terms of the Colby assessment. I'm a quick start, you know, I like to take action, uh, and get things done right away. I don't like to, you know, And put them off and that's, you know, been some challenges in my business then, because I don't want to just wait for the next year to implement a new, um, initiative.

So, um, but in terms of my culture, it definitely is something that I wasn't raised necessarily directly with because I was very much, um, Chinese American. I was raised that, you know, You know, are in your career, you likely will stay with the same company through retirement. When they retire, have a pension, all of these things, very stable.

But at the same time, my mom owned her own business on the side as well. Um, so, uh, there was a lot of disconnect, you know, in today's society. And as a millennial myself is really unlikely. A lot of us will stay in the same companies. Some companies may not even exist in 30 years as their new startups and things.

And there's no pensions, you know, where I work. So. Yeah, there's a continuum and a growth phase more, um, where we can grow as individuals more in today's society. So, um, I think there's more room for entrepreneurship and more room for diversification versus how I grew up in, you know, in the nineties. 

[00:26:52] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah.

You were burned out yourself. 

[00:26:55] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I 

[00:26:56] Mike Koelzer, Host: was, but then all of a sudden you decide to spend 80 hours a week trying to figure out a way to do it. They burned out. I'm joking, but I mean, tell me about your burnout and what changed. I'm assuming you're not as burned out or else you wouldn't be able to bring your story to the masses.

[00:27:19] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I think that that's definitely a great question. So in my opinion, burnout is not something that you cure or that you solve, you know, there's ways to reset it and then have prevention strategies. So I don't think that, you know, there's one cure for it and you, it just, you know, it things ebb and flow in life.

So that's kind of how I view burnout. First I had to realize I had it because no one was talking about it in 2014. Um, very widely, very openly. So I didn't know what I had, you know, it was very high levels of stress that led to. Um, but you know, was a combination of residency and my first year in academia that led to it.

And, you know, I always tell people that, you know, lazy people don't burn out. I mean, um, so, you know, you're kind of self inducing, a lot of that and not realizing what the exhaustion and the cynicism and. Decreased self-advocacy of really doing to your overall life, not only at work, so, 

[00:28:16] Mike Koelzer, Host: and that's how you would, and that's one definition for you of burn out of the exhaustion, non efficacy, that kind of 

[00:28:24] Jessica Louie, PharmD: thing.

Yeah. So I view it as, you know, the three characteristics. Um, so as Asha and usually is the first one physically and emotionally, I also add in, you know, spiritually and mentally. And then the cynicism, we are, you have a negative viewpoint about your work life or about the environment. And then finally you have decreased self efficacy, so you don't feel like you're making a difference.

And where I had a lot of that, part of it stemmed from my research experience and, uh, you know, setting up expectations, realistic expectations of how long research would be published. It took three to five years for five of my projects to be published. So that was a long road and a long process. And you, uh, Setting up realistic expectations up front can really help reset those feelings.

And then how you bring work home with you, how you set up healthy boundaries, um, and that. You know how you view the profession and where it's moving. You know, I came from a very progressive program at the university of Utah back to, uh, California. I trained in California for my pharmacy school, but you know, the level of hospital pharmacy practice is not the same.

And it needs a lot of work in California, specifically in Los Angeles and for organizations to realize that as a long process, 

[00:29:46] Mike Koelzer, Host: when. Cynicism that, and that's really interesting to me because w would you say cynicism is a natural result of already being burned out and then you just can't see joy in anything.

So you're cynical or. is it Kind of leading, leading up to it. Is it like, almost like a warning sign? Tell me more about that cynicism. It 

[00:30:12] Jessica Louie, PharmD: could be both in terms of, so basically you start to lose empathy for your ability to care, and that could be your ability to connect with patients. It could be your ability to connect with staff or coworkers.

And do you lose this feeling? If you feel isolated, you might begin to feel numb about your work. So it could be a warning sign that, oh, I'm not. I'm having more of a negative viewpoint towards my patients and maybe something's going on. Um, and I need to, um, look at what's happening in my life and reset that, or it could be like you're already in burnout and now you need to take some steps to really, um, get back to finding joy again.

So it could be either or, um, but once you start feeling numb, you know where, you know, I work in ICU, if you know a death of a patient doesn't mean. induce some type of feeling in you, then you might be needing to look at that and really dive a little deeper. 

[00:31:15] Mike Koelzer, Host: That's really interesting because I've seen that.

I've seen that before and I'm just a. You know, cynicism, and sometimes I'll get it here in the pharmacy, I suppose, dealing with the, you know, the insurers and things like that. And then it leads on to maybe others, are there areas, Jessica, what were you able to learn or do to help with the burnout that you had?

[00:31:45] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So, you know, first, you know, I realized that, you know, I had a problem in my life and then, you know, sought help for it. So both, you know, through the KonMari method, through Simon Sinek, start with why programs and, you know, just diving deeper into. What I was, what was going on in my life. So what really helped was clarifying, you know, my life values and my purpose.

So getting those very clear because you know, our family grew up with, you know, values and missions and things, but we didn't actually talk about them and write them down. So as a young adult, now, it's like, you want to write those down and be very clear about them because that's where all your decisions are going to be made from.

Um, so that's, you know, was my clarification step. Um, after I did that, you know, physically decluttering. So basically I took those four clutter steps and first of the physical part in my home and my office then started on the mental part. So a lot of mental clutter stems from digital devices and, you know, computers or phones.

So decluttering that, um, that means, you know, how can people reach you? How, how can people notify you? Um, so you're changing that from being reactive to being proactive. Um, so that's how you check your email and all those 

things. 

[00:33:04] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Just checking your email more proactively, like instead of someone wanting me to respond all the time and it's like, this is my proactive time to either.

Push out or, or, or react, but it's a proactive, reactive time. Yes. 

[00:33:20] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So it's, you know, setting up those times, maybe two to three times a day, that you actually respond to email. Right. And I'm a big advocate for inbox zero. So you get to zero emails in your inbox. Okay. So I have a free, you know, 15 day challenge that, um, a lot of my clients take so that they can achieve that.

But basically you're not, um, you're not allowing people to contact you, um, for urgent things via email. Um, you teach people how to contact you. So just like, um, in the past where we only had landlines and phones in our houses, It's kind of going back to that where people are not just expecting a response from a text message right away, and they're going to need you.

They're going to have to call you. Um, and they're going to actually have to get through to that call. So I teach my clients how to stop all notifications, how to put your phone on, and not to disturb the time block so that no one can contact you during certain times of the day. Put it on airplane mode so that you're really focused and energized for that work.

So, um, there's lots of different ways to remove mental clutter, um, also from your schedule and your calendar. And then we move on to emotional cutter and how we process our feelings. So a lot of that is about journaling, bringing back gratitude, bringing back forgiveness into our lives because a lot of times, um, We can look at social media and other things and not feel grateful for what we have in our lives.

But a lot of us who live in the United States have a lot of good things going and just writing down what we're grateful for that day can have a lot of positive impacts on your life. And there's a lot of different studies on that, but basically getting back into that, and then finally, the spiritual clutter of how do you bring your energy levels to your day?

How do you, how are you present? Throughout the day so that you build trust with others. So that's really about mindfulness, you know, not doing two things at once or you're solo focusing on a task or a person. And then, you know, you can also bring in some types of meditation practices and things like that.

So you are really tackling a lot of the different clutter aspects. 

[00:35:29] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Some of the listeners of this program know that I've got 10 children. And there's some areas in my life that are just a holy hell, like my garage and the basement, you know? And it's just like, as much as my wife and I tried, you know, the kids will go down and try to find, uh, a wig that's in the Halloween box, you know, where instead of looking for it and then putting everything back in, you know, the whole contents of the box are everywhere.

So my little havens of, um, Order are in my phone areas that nobody's allowed to go into. So my phone and, you know, my podcast and, but that's about, that's about all I really, and my do list, I would say, you know, but that's about all I really have ordered in my life, but. It's okay for now. 

[00:36:24] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Well, so I would push back on that a little bit in terms of creating that calm type of sanctuary at your home.

So that could be some small part of your home that you can create. And then also whatever you want in your home setting, you know, habit wise, we. We need to teach everyone else in our home how to do it. So I work with a lot of clients where I'm only working with, you know, one of the parents, um, and the other person needs to teach everyone in the home, how to do it.

So that's all. Uh, papers, for example, this is like a daily household activity in terms of teaching everyone. This is the system we have in place of where you put your papers. We're going to process the papers either once a day or once a week. And they're going to go to the shred pile, recycle or digitize the pile.

So we will have a system in place. And once that system's in place, everyone has to. You know, one buys into it and follows it. And that takes, you know, um, potentially a few weeks, a few months to get used to, but then everyone is invested in, you know, how we keep our home tidy, how we want it to visually feel.

If it's not really about what it looks like, it's really how it makes you feel. 

[00:37:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: And you're working as a team to do that. I'm a big scanner. I like to scan a bunch of stuff because. When my dad died a number of years ago, I was kind of responsible for going through his filing cabinet. And there was a lot of neat stuff in there, birthday cards from the kids and all that kind of stuff.

I didn't really know what to do with them. So my theory was that I scan all my cards and stuff so that when I get older, two things, one is I can sit there and in my depression. Uh, hospital bed and looked through my Google drive at all the nice birthday cards and stuff through the years. But also then when I die, my kids, should they ever want to, they can just make copies of this and they can save memorabilia of that.

They were a part of. Through the years. The problem with that, here's the lesson I learned though, is when the kids make you a birthday card, when they draw one out for you, do not scan it right away and shred it right away. The trick, the trick is to leave it around for about a month. Let the kids know you appreciate it.

Then scan it and then shred it because no one likes to see their birthday and know, and they don't understand my method, but someday they will. And that feels so now feels so bad. Um, Jessica, tell me about your. 

[00:39:13] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Podcast. So I host the burnout doctor podcast and, you know, actually it was something I had been planning for a couple of years before I launched it and looking back, you know, for my business coaching notes and everything.

I had manifested it about 18 months before I actually launched. So when it came time to produce it and you name it and everything, you know, my business coaches really helped me get Nishaun back into pharmacy and healthcare. What does that word mean? 

[00:39:42] Mike Koelzer, Host: Manifested? 

[00:39:42] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I manifested it. So basically, um, when you're setting up goals, I like to reverse engineer your goals from life goals down to back down to yearly goals, monthly daily goals.

So I had put it on, you know, this is my. Three-year plan and, and I 

[00:40:00] Mike Koelzer, Host: so manifested it means you had it. That was your timing, your future timing of it, basically. Yeah. So 

[00:40:06] Jessica Louie, PharmD: basically you, how have you manifested as you're writing it down, like it already happened and write the writing down with pen and papers, like one of the most important steps of that.

So I had planned out, you know, two to three years of my life, here's what I would like to have done. And the month I would want things done. So I put down July, 2019 is when I launched my podcast a year and a half before it actually happened. So, um, then, you know, when I came back to that, I didn't even realize that that was on my list for 2019.

What I planned out my 2019 goals and everything. And I came back to that and was like, okay, I'm going to do this. I did an eight week sprint to launch it. So basically I put everything together in eight weeks leading up to July, 2019, and I launched with eight episodes that you could listen to. And the format of it is really targeting pharmacists and healthcare professionals.

How do you declutter, simplify our lives and incorporate wellbeing and burnout prevention into your day-to-day life? So. A lot of the episodes are very short, uh, 10 to 20 minutes each, uh, they are solo episodes of me addressing a topic right now. I don't really have guests on the podcast. There are no sponsorships, no ads on the podcast.

[00:41:22] Mike Koelzer, Host: I just have guests because I'm. 

[00:41:24] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Well, I think I, I think guests are definitely, um, fun to talk to and everything. And I've been on a lot of podcasts. It just hasn't worked with my scheduling right now, bringing a lot on, cause I batch out my episodes in advance, usually 

[00:41:37] Mike Koelzer, Host: kind of the Netflix 

[00:41:38] Jessica Louie, PharmD: model. Yeah. And then now they all release once a week on Thursday.

So, uh, every Thursday there's an episode and I just finished up a financial wellbeing series of four episodes. And, and moving on from there, did you put four 

[00:41:53] Mike Koelzer, Host: episodes out on Thursday or would you do that in four consecutive? Thursdays. 

[00:41:58] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So now it's each Thursday. Yeah. So one every week, 

[00:42:02] Mike Koelzer, Host: every week for four weeks and then 

[00:42:03] Jessica Louie, PharmD: onto another one.

The only time I launched all eight episodes at the beginning of the podcast. So that you could do you want to 

[00:42:10] Mike Koelzer, Host: Give that big, shocking kind of thing? 

[00:42:13] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Yeah. Give a lot of information upfront. There was a lot of information related to burnout. And then I went on toward decluttering stuff after that. 

[00:42:21] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. Do you do all of the parts of the podcast yourself or do you have health.

[00:42:30] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So I do everything myself. So I, that was one of the reasons why, when I got into blogging and online business, I wanted to learn how to do everything myself, even if in the future, I would hire team members to do it for me. So I actually do enjoy a lot of the tech background. I actually considered going into informatics and pharmacy.

So. So, yes, I record on Adobe audition. I edited it myself. I use Libsyn podcast hosting and do all the graphics and everything with the blog post with the episode. So, um, I really enjoy all of those parts and, um, you know, I definitely enjoy, um, I definitely enjoy listening to podcasts. That's really the reason why I started a podcast myself.

Yeah. I was doing some YouTube videos and other things online and I realized. What type of media do I consume myself and it was mostly podcasts because you know, 30 to 45 minutes in the car back and forth from work. That's the easiest thing to listen to besides audio books. So that's one of the reasons why, okay.

I want to get back into my community in that way. I found 

[00:43:36] Mike Koelzer, Host: the three things that, and you, and you broke them down, how I would see them, but I've enjoyed them, well, certainly enjoy talking to people like you. And I've met so many people that are willing to be on a podcast that you probably wouldn't be able to just call them and say, Hey, you want to talk for half an hour?

You know, it's, it's, uh, that's been really cool. I also enjoyed the technical part of it. Uh, both the recording now, the mixing and so on. And I also enjoy the social media aspect of promoting it and so on. So, and frankly, Having the listeners. I don't know if I would do it. If there is only one listener or zero listeners, but that's fun too, to have a way to spread the message.

And I've told my children. There's never been a time like this in history where there's no middle man. There's no editor we have to get by. And it's dirt cheap. I mean, it's free. Basically, if you have a mic and or even a phone, you know, you can record into an, uh, uh, that's about it. Everybody can get their chance to do things like this.

So there's just never, ever been a time like that in the past. 

[00:44:47] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I agree. We have a lot of great opportunities. I 

[00:44:50] Mike Koelzer, Host: knew a guy one time, he said his kid was good at a certain sport and he might've been, but the issue is that sport was not very popular and it took a lot of money to be part of that sport. And so he wasn't maybe one of my favorite guys.

So I would say, yes, kid's good at this. There are so few people that have tried this, that you don't know how good he is. He's just got the money and he picked the one to do that. But you compare that to something like, you know, street ball or, or soccer or where anybody in the world can do it pretty cheaply and you gotta be really good too.

Rise to the top because you're competing against the world. And so that's something too that's happening now with podcasting and YouTube music and things like that, where anybody can do it, but to really make it big. Now, your competing against the soccer players, you know, figuratively of the world, instead of just the people who had money or connections to get in front of certain producers and things like that.

Right. 

[00:46:08] Jessica Louie, PharmD: I think that it's a way that I view it as a way to reach beyond the classroom because, you know, I have, you know, a hundred students at the university, but to reach beyond that so that you can reach globally where people can listen to the podcast all over the world, get the help they need, that they might not get at their own university or in their own developing country is really impactful.

And, um, great. Connect them with other pharmacists or other people listening throughout the United States and the world that you would never meet. Like, I would never have met a lot of my fellow pharmacists that are also entrepreneurs or the pharmacists in general before. A lot of us don't have the luxury to go to the conferences every year or all their things in person.

So being able to connect online either through the podcast or videos or social media is been so great to learn people's stories, then I've really 

[00:47:03] Mike Koelzer, Host: enjoyed it. What would you tell a pharmacist? So we have, we have quite a few community pharmacists listening to the program along with quite a few other ones, but I know we have, uh, a group of community pharmacists.

What would you be telling them if they're at home and everything's Nirvana at home, you know, perfectly, but then they come into this, like, Cluster at work. And it's like, they just know it's going to be a disaster day after day. 

[00:47:35] Jessica Louie, PharmD: So I tell them that they're in control of their life. So, you know, it's up to you what you want in your life.

So if you don't know what you want in your life, that would be the first thing I would, you know, right out of. What's important to you and what legacy you want to leave. And then I would say, You can make changes in your own life and the nets, you know, 10, 15 minutes that would impact your day to day at work.

So, um, that's what I call finding joy at work. All of those steps are related to what you will physically or mentally change and remove clutter. So, um, there's definitely different techniques of how you let go of some of that frustration at work that we could talk about. And then, um, and then really writing it down.

You know, if you don't feel like you could leave or change your hours or change your situation right now, what is holding you back? Is it because of, you know, the financial burden and then we can dive deeper into, you know, why do you feel trapped in your financial situation? And I think, yeah. Um, for a lot of pharmacists, that means that there was too much investment in front of new houses and all these things went down.

And is that really adding value to your life? So I actually work with a lot of people that end up downsizing and, and clearing a lot of those financial commitments that they felt tied to away from their life, so that they can go part-time or start a small business to diversify their income or. You're not necessarily following the fire movement, but basically don't wait until retirement to enjoy your life.

You can still enjoy your life now. Uh, progress. So, uh, there's definitely different things people can do. And also I think that it's really important that people know that they're not alone. Like what they're feeling with their work situations is not, um, is very common in today's pharmacy and healthcare world.

So please don't feel like you're alone and no one understands what you're going through. We definitely understand. And there's definitely ways that you can change, uh, how your. Some of 

[00:49:41] Mike Koelzer, Host: It's intrinsic, that there might be some ways to relook at things that work and take a different view of it. But sometimes it's like, you're not gonna win in that situation.

You might have to make some changes and to make those changes, you might have to make some other changes, you know, first. I remember years ago, it's funny. The stuff that I would focus on, like I would look at a 17 year old kid that I hired and he might be leaning on the broom or, you know, chewing the fat with somebody or something.

And I took that. So personally back then, I blamed them. How could they disrespect me and not give me a. Full-time work, you know, or else I blame myself and it's like, how come I can't motivate what's wrong with me that I can't motivate that person to do this. You know? And now like 10 years later, Ah, what the hell?

The kids are 17. I'm not going to change the world with him. You know, if he gets the job done or whatever, and I want to, I want to get in there enough to let them know that I'm pretending that I'm paying attention to them and stuff. But a lot of it's the focus, you know, what, where I can shift my focus, I suppose.

[00:50:59] Jessica Louie, PharmD: And I mean, it's also, you know, for a lot of employees that are feeling dissatisfied or frustrated right now, it's also making sure that their managers and supervisors know what's important to them. What are their personal goals? Because a lot of times. You know, we don't actually talk about those and it might not be the ones that people assume you're striving for.

It might be that you want better work-life alignment and integration harmony, or it might be that you are working towards a new certification or, you know, development within the company. And how can you grow within that same company? So this is getting down into that at the individual level. It can be really important.

[00:51:41] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah. I think a lot of what I'm learning as I get older, it seems like there's a lot of benefit to listening. Not listening with the expectation of either side that something is necessarily going to happen. You know, it seems like I would never want to listen to somebody because I always felt like that meant pressure that I had to do what they were suggesting or so on.

I didn't want to let them down and so on, but as I'm getting older now, it's like, I think I'm a better listener. And then it's like, all right, you wanted a, B and C. Well, thanks a lot for sharing. It's like, there's no way in hell. We can do any of those, but thanks for sharing, but at least somewhere, you know, it changes things a little bit in your head.

I see. What kind of people do you want contacting you and how should they be contacting 

[00:52:34] Jessica Louie, PharmD: you? So the best place to start is my website, Dr. Jessica, Louie, Dr. Jessica L O U I e.com. And you can, uh, see if these things resonate with you on the burnout doctor podcast. And then there's lots of freebies there to download the burnout workbook, the decluttering workbook and the joy at work, uh, programs.

And, you know, people can always reach out via email, uh, and, or send me a message on LinkedIn, uh, is where I like to hear. 

[00:53:07] Mike Koelzer, Host: And this could be anybody from a S a student to someone who's ready to retire that needs some of that, either physical or kind of, um, uh, mental, uh, cleanup. 

[00:53:21] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Yes. It could be, uh, anyone in the pharmacy profession.

And then if you have any friends or colleagues in healthcare that are needing some help, you can always point them towards the podcast. 

[00:53:32] Mike Koelzer, Host: Yeah, well, that's great, Jessica. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you, Mike. So quite the pleasure. Thanks a lot, Jessica. 

[00:53:41] Jessica Louie, PharmD: Thank you for having me on the podcast.

Thank you.